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Thread: 64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

  1. #31
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    Originally posted by kilo
    It could in theory be someone aside from Cingular blue
    I don't believe Cingular allows TMO roaming in ATL.

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  2. #32
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    isnt there supposed to be a larger phonebook capacity


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  3. #33
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    Ok so I'm a bit disapointed and confused. From quickly reading this thread, I have gathered that if I have a 32k SIM even after day 1, my phone will still continue to prefer Cingular orange. And even if I buy a new 64k SIM card, my phone will continue to prefer "orange" since it's not ENS.
    Which in my case sucks, since service at home is better on ATT. So if I want my phone to treat "blue" like a home network, I need to poney up for a new "ENS" phone, and a new 64k SIM card, since my T637 apparently is not ENS capable. I just bought the phone in July, I love it, it does everything I need it too and have no complaints, besides the preference of "orange" vs. "blue".....

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, since IMO this does not seem too fair. Seing i have to suffer almost 6 more months before I'm eligible for a "sale" price upgrade...

  4. #34
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    Is there a way to tell which phones are ENS capable and which are not?

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    is the samsung e316 ENS capapble

  6. #36
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    What about customers of MVNO's (i.e. TracFone or 7-11 SpeakOut)? Would they also receive the OTA updates?

  7. #37
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    Originally posted by Hi-Tek
    I have gathered that if I have a 32k SIM even after day 1, my phone will still continue to prefer Cingular orange...since service at home is better on ATT. So if I want my phone to treat "blue" like a home network...
    Is your Cingular phone ever able to use the ATTWS towers in your area? If not it should be able to come 11/15/2004. Then once the signal drops low enough, it should switch to the ATTWS tower.

    Something I should point out about these "Over The Air Updates" (OTA) and whether different ones "prefer" one system or another.

    Right now, at this very moment, every Cingular SIM is setup to "prefer" one of the 3 Cingular networks (either 310150, 310170, or 310410) first, and then the other two Cingular networks (whichever two it didn't prefer first), and then a whole long list of other networks (some in this country, some in other countries).
    What used to happen is that ATTWS was kinda far down the list. What this "Over the Air Update" is going to do is put it on the list right after the 3 Cingular networks.
    It's going to do this for everyone (64K SIM, 32K SIM, ENS phone, non-ENS phone, Cingular Orange, formerly Cingular Blue but now Cingular Orange even with a 64K SIM and an ENS phone), everyone EXCEPT for Cingular Blue customers who do not change to a new Cingular price plan and keep their old equipment, and Cingular Blue customers who are sold their 64K SIMS and ENS phones in areas where there are no Cingular Orange towers. In that case their 64K SIM will still list Cingular first, then ATTWS, then the other networks, but the virtual applications possible with a 64K SIM and ENS phone will allow the phone to "fake" having ATTWS as it's "Home/Preferred" network.

    Now the flip side of that coin might very well have been that the ATTWS towers in whatever area you were in were "LAC Locked" from allowing you to use them. (See the couple of threads in the main Cingular forum which ask "Which ATT LACs are not yet open?") But regardless I believe they should all be open on November 15th 2004.

    I would say wait until then and see if you don't see an improvement.
    -kilo <<I used to work as a Customer Service Representative and then as a Tier II Technical Support Representative for Cingular Wireless LLC most of my info you can associate with TX OK AR KS MO>>

  8. #38
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    Originally posted by EdwardP
    What about customers of MVNO's (i.e. TracFone or 7-11 SpeakOut)? Would they also receive the OTA updates?
    You bring up an interesting point. One probably better to post here:
    The OFFICIAL Cingular/AWS MERGER Information Thread....Post your questions HERE ONLY!
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...hreadid=482213

    I've done so on that thread.

  9. #39
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    Are you sure about this "OTA"???

    Originally posted by kilo

    Right now, at this very moment, every Cingular SIM is setup to "prefer" one of the 3 Cingular networks (either 310150, 310170, or 310410) first, and then the other two Cingular networks (whichever two it didn't prefer first), and then a whole long list of other networks (some in this country, some in other countries).
    What used to happen is that ATTWS was kinda far down the list. What this "Over the Air Update" is going to do is put it on the list right after the 3 Cingular networks.
    I have a NYC 32K SIM and I asked for the OTA over the phone and they did it....from what I understand the OTA was to fix the "Cingular" and "Cingular Extended" ID's flip/flops when I went from one to the other (T-Mo/AT&T)....

    I still see that I am still on the "Orange" network first (T-Mobile) after the OTA. I check the SIM list after the OTA and the only thing I saw was they deleted a carrier off the list (I think Telefona or something like that).

    The start of the new list follows:

    Cingular home 310-150
    #1 Cingular 310-410
    #2 Cingular 310-150
    #3 Cingular 310-170
    #4 USAFC 310-910
    #5 T-Mobile 310-260
    #6 AT&T Wireless 310-380
    #7 TelCel GSM 334-020

    (Old list had T-Mo at #6 and AT&T at #7)

    As it is listed, Cingular still wants me to use the Joint/Venture Cingular/T-mobile network 1st and then AT&T Wireless 2nd or if there is no T-Mo coverage. A weak T-Mobile signal will still keep me locked onto T-Mo, even if there is a stronger AT&T Wireless signal around....(I do fudge my list around to pick AT&T 1st, so I get AT&T over T-Mo, but I have to fudge the list....)

    So do you think there will be a new OTA after the 15th to move AT&T up the list, or do you think they will change the AT&T Tower ID's to 310-410 to solve this problem......

  10. #40
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    I don't think ya ever really answered Hi-Tek's real question. Which I am interested in as well. More for a friend than for myself.

    I'll rephrase:
    If you're a person with a somewhat older (i.e. non-ENS phone) and you're a Cingular Orange customer... at your home, you have 1-2 bars of Cingular Orange and 5 of Cingular Blue. So that your phone will try to stay on the weak signal and therefore you miss calls when it does so...

    what exactly is going to help you?

    A 64K SIM can't cause it's not ENS enabled, right?

    Is it possible that an OTA update would. Would it be possible to have 310-380 listed as 'Home', so that when it locks onto that, it won't go searching again? Or does it always search for a higher network even if its already on a Home one? Or is there only one possible 'Home' on a PRL?

    Is anything going to help that situation, or will we have to wait 6 months or so until the networks are all merged to 310-410?

  11. #41
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    Re: Are you sure about this "OTA"???

    Originally posted by dkhomdds
    I have a NYC 32K SIM and I asked for the OTA over the phone and they did it....from what I understand the OTA was to fix the "Cingular" and "Cingular Extended" ID's flip/flops when I went from one to the other (T-Mo/AT&T)....

    I still see that I am still on the "Orange" network first (T-Mobile) after the OTA. I check the SIM list after the OTA and the only thing I saw was they deleted a carrier off the list (I think Telefona or something like that).

    The start of the new list follows:

    Cingular home 310-150
    #1 Cingular 310-410
    #2 Cingular 310-150
    #3 Cingular 310-170
    #4 USAFC 310-910
    #5 T-Mobile 310-260
    #6 AT&T Wireless 310-380
    #7 TelCel GSM 334-020

    (Old list had T-Mo at #6 and AT&T at #7)

    As it is listed, Cingular still wants me to use the Joint/Venture Cingular/T-mobile network 1st and then AT&T Wireless 2nd or if there is no T-Mo coverage. A weak T-Mobile signal will still keep me locked onto T-Mo, even if there is a stronger AT&T Wireless signal around....(I do fudge my list around to pick AT&T 1st, so I get AT&T over T-Mo, but I have to fudge the list....)

    So do you think there will be a new OTA after the 15th to move AT&T up the list, or do you think they will change the AT&T Tower ID's to 310-410 to solve this problem......
    well now is where it gets interesting. Cingular wants to eventually get their entire nationwide network to be 310410, now why you prefer that over 310260 is probably to keep the 310380 network from overloading, at what point it will start prefering is a good question

    here comes the question: Does the new PLMN list have a lower threshhold to switch to ATTWS than it did before since ATTWS is going to be LAC unlocked on Monday?

    Come monday/tuesday, let us know if the phone seems to switch to ATTWS any easier when the T-Mo shared network goes low.

  12. #42
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    Originally posted by DeltaOne81
    I don't think ya ever really answered Hi-Tek's real question. Which I am interested in as well. More for a friend than for myself.
    I'll rephrase:
    If you're a person with a somewhat older (i.e. non-ENS phone) and you're a Cingular Orange customer... at your home, you have 1-2 bars of Cingular Orange and 5 of Cingular Blue. So that your phone will try to stay on the weak signal and therefore you miss calls when it does so...
    what exactly is going to help you?
    A 64K SIM can't cause it's not ENS enabled, right?
    Is it possible that an OTA update would. Would it be possible to have 310-380 listed as 'Home', so that when it locks onto that, it won't go searching again? Or does it always search for a higher network even if its already on a Home one? Or is there only one possible 'Home' on a PRL?
    Is anything going to help that situation, or will we have to wait 6 months or so until the networks are all merged to 310-410?
    well I gotta admit I'm not 100% sure how that works out.

    Something I would hope works out, is that with the LAC Restrictions being removed, and that there will be a lower threshold to switch to another network, you would switch at like 3 bars or something. But I have to admit, even the Tech Support merger training manager I asked didn't have that answer for me.

  13. #43
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    One thing that seems to puzzle me. I am a Blue customer and my SIM preferes Blue, (in the NYC/LI area) where Blue beats the T Mobile/Cingular Area. As we all know Orange will be leaving the shared network with T Mobile and will switch to ATTW and keep 10mhz from the JV. From what you are saying here (which makes me believe that something is wrong in the way it was explained to you or it was meant for the Orange customers bennefits only in the Blue area), I would come to a conclusion (based on my location) that Orange customers are realy the ones that need the 64K SIM as they need to be forced to the Blue side. With this said since the Blue customers SIMs are already programed to home in on the Blue side then they are up and runing with no need for the 64K in the local area. So in LI the 64K SIM will not bennefit Blue but will be a bennefit for Orange.
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  14. #44
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    Originally posted by hf1khal
    One thing that seems to puzzle me. I am a Blue customer and my SIM preferes Blue, (in the NYC/LI area) where Blue beats the T Mobile/Cingular Area. As we all know Orange will be leaving the shared network with T Mobile and will switch to ATTW and keep 10mhz from the JV. From what you are saying here (which makes me believe that something is wrong in the way it was explained to you or it was meant for the Orange customers bennefits only in the Blue area), I would come to a conclusion (based on my location) that Orange customers are realy the ones that need the 64K SIM as they need to be forced to the Blue side. With this said since the Blue customers SIMs are already programed to home in on the Blue side then they are up and runing with no need for the 64K in the local area. So in LI the 64K SIM will not bennefit Blue but will be a bennefit for Orange.
    I got to admit that this thread keep making me feel like I missed a class in Merger Training or something, that or it wasn't explained to me properly (yeah I'll blame them, it's their fault)

    Keep in mind the future of Cingular: 310410

    Now what better way to ease the transition from 4 networks than with a phone that can fake any of those 4 networks as home, and then dynamically, from a command issued over the network, switch to another network as home.

    For NYC your right, it does sound like it's the Cingular customers who need to be switched to Blue (310380), but eventually cingular will want you on 310410, not Blue.

    Plus I think their keeping the Tmo shared network going for at least 2 more years.

  15. #45
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    Originally posted by kilo
    I got to admit that this thread keep making me feel like I missed a class in Merger Training or something, that or it wasn't explained to me properly (yeah I'll blame them, it's their fault)

    Keep in mind the future of Cingular: 310410

    Now what better way to ease the transition from 4 networks than with a phone that can fake any of those 4 networks as home, and then dynamically, from a command issued over the network, switch to another network as home.

    For NYC your right, it does sound like it's the Cingular customers who need to be switched to Blue (310380), but eventually cingular will want you on 310410, not Blue.

    Plus I think their keeping the Tmo shared network going for at least 2 more years.
    With that in mind, combined with me having the V3 an OTA to my Blue SIM should do the job to make the changes for network listings update. I also heard (few months down the road) that in time there could be the possibility that the Blue customers might be able to just swap SIMs to the ens without having to change to Orange (that will work if the user also acquires an ENS capable phone). In my case the V3 is already capapble as well as any new phones that are being released starting this month.

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