64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

[Hi-Tek]

Originally posted by kilo
Is your Cingular phone ever able to use the ATTWS towers in your area? If not it should be able to come 11/15/2004. Then once the signal drops low enough, it should switch to the ATTWS tower.

Something I should point out about these "Over The Air Updates" (OTA) and whether different ones "prefer" one system or another.

Right now, at this very moment, every Cingular SIM is setup to "prefer" one of the 3 Cingular networks (either 310150, 310170, or 310410) first, and then the other two Cingular networks (whichever two it didn't prefer first), and then a whole long list of other networks (some in this country, some in other countries).
What used to happen is that ATTWS was kinda far down the list. What this "Over the Air Update" is going to do is put it on the list right after the 3 Cingular networks.
It's going to do this for everyone (64K SIM, 32K SIM, ENS phone, non-ENS phone, Cingular Orange, formerly Cingular Blue but now Cingular Orange even with a 64K SIM and an ENS phone), everyone EXCEPT for Cingular Blue customers who do not change to a new Cingular price plan and keep their old equipment, and Cingular Blue customers who are sold their 64K SIMS and ENS phones in areas where there are no Cingular Orange towers. In that case their 64K SIM will still list Cingular first, then ATTWS, then the other networks, but the virtual applications possible with a 64K SIM and ENS phone will allow the phone to "fake" having ATTWS as it's "Home/Preferred" network.

Now the flip side of that coin might very well have been that the ATTWS towers in whatever area you were in were "LAC Locked" from allowing you to use them. (See the couple of threads in the main Cingular forum which ask "Which ATT LACs are not yet open?") But regardless I believe they should all be open on November 15th 2004.

I would say wait until then and see if you don't see an improvement.

Well I've been always able to use "blue " towers before the merger/buyout went through. Just that my phone prefers the weaker "orange" vs the stronger "blue".
Today is November 15, and I have yet to see a difference in my signal at home. Will this OTA be sent out automaticaly? Or do I have to call and request it? I'm not a tech or anything, I just don't understand why they can't make the phone prefer the stronger signal, not hang on for dear life to the weaker "orange" signal. It's not like they're paying roaming fees to ATT anymore. Maybe I will just give it some time.... But thanks for the answers, the information is greatly valued....

[hf1khal]

Originally posted by Hi-Tek
Well I've been always able to use "blue " towers before the merger/buyout went through. Just that my phone prefers the weaker "orange" vs the stronger "blue".
Today is November 15, and I have yet to see a difference in my signal at home. Will this OTA be sent out automaticaly? Or do I have to call and request it? I'm not a tech or anything, I just don't understand why they can't make the phone prefer the stronger signal, not hang on for dear life to the weaker "orange" signal. It's not like they're paying roaming fees to ATT anymore. Maybe I will just give it some time.... But thanks for the answers, the information is greatly valued....

From what I heard is that Orange is not that well equiped for an OTA like Blue is. So them sending an OTA now might be a bit tough unless they se the Blue's OTA functionality.

[shortyd999]

Well i called and ask the CSR to send me OTA update to my sim card to make sure i had the latest downloads and she did. Now anytime my phone "roams" the alpha tag says Cingular, not Cingular Extend. And i know i'm "roaming" because in my office, the Cingular signal is weak but the AWS signal is strong and it will suddenly jump from 1-2 bars, to 4-5 bars and when i make a call it will say Call Forwarding On.

[dkhomdds]

Well, after following this thread, getting the OTA update and looking at someone elses 64K NYC SIM in my phone. I still have come to the conclusion that this is my only fix I have to do to force my phone to use the "Blue" network over the "Orange" network no matter what the "Orange" signal strengh is.....


Check this link out if you have a moto VXXX phone......I have been using this and running this way since 2nd week of Sept. since AT&T LAC's opened up in my area and I wanted the 850 coverage!!!

http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...hreadid=491409

hope this helps some.....

[kilo]

Originally posted by Hi-Tek
Well I've been always able to use "blue " towers before the merger/buyout went through. Just that my phone prefers the weaker "orange" vs the stronger "blue".
Today is November 15, and I have yet to see a difference in my signal at home. Will this OTA be sent out automaticaly? Or do I have to call and request it? I'm not a tech or anything, I just don't understand why they can't make the phone prefer the stronger signal, not hang on for dear life to the weaker "orange" signal. It's not like they're paying roaming fees to ATT anymore. Maybe I will just give it some time.... But thanks for the answers, the information is greatly valued....

yeah, Day 1 is here and I was really hoping for some changes (not for me, for everyone else, I don't even live in an overlap area)

the "hang on for dear life" thing, the phones are setup that way because when the systems were designed we had no idea we would one day want to switch back and forth to a (at the time) "foreign" network

If/When the lack of reception at your house gets to you (which I assume it has or you wouldn't be posting in a cell phone forum), call in and say that "some guy at the store" told you that your signal might be improved by updating information to my phone that they can do over the air, something about "oh-tee-a's" or some nonsense.

Best of luck.

[hf1khal]

Originally posted by kilo
yeah, Day 1 is here and I was really hoping for some changes (not for me, for everyone else, I don't even live in an overlap area)

the "hang on for dear life" thing, the phones are setup that way because when the systems were designed we had no idea we would one day want to switch back and forth to a (at the time) "foreign" network

If/When the lack of reception at your house gets to you (which I assume it has or you wouldn't be posting in a cell phone forum), call in and say that "some guy at the store" told you that your signal might be improved by updating information to my phone that they can do over the air, something about "oh-tee-a's" or some nonsense.

Best of luck.

OTA (over the air) update. Someone posted about this and said that all it did was just bring up the Blue list to be next. He did a network pref edit and got Blue as the default but only for as long as he keeps his phone on, butit it re-cycled the list goes back to normal.

[futureMD]

Originally posted by hf1khal
OTA (over the air) update. Someone posted about this and said that all it did was just bring up the Blue list to be next. He did a network pref edit and got Blue as the default but only for as long as he keeps his phone on, butit it re-cycled the list goes back to normal.

Hehe. You don't have to educate kilo on what an OTA is. He was just trying to tell you what to say on the phone to sound dumb so the tech will do an OTA for you. Kilo's a tier 2 tech for Cingular. I'm sure he knows more than the majority of us about them.

[dkhomdds]

With all this talk about OTA to get better receeption....It really does not work to get better reception!!! for "orange" users....

Two major things the OTA does:

1) Changes alpha tags on the SIM to display only "Cingular" when you are on either Cingular/T-Mobile/AT&T Wireless towers. It used to say "Cingular Extended" when you use AT&T towers

2) Moves T-Mobile up to the #5 spot on the list and AT&T up to #6 on the priority list. (Does not make you use AT&T over T-mobile if there is a weak, but usable T-mobile signal around!)

Now this OTA has not improve any "reception" for anybody with a 32K SIM and a non-ens phone, it just makes you think that you are on "Cingular" all the time, when you may be "Roaming" onto the "Blue" network. But your phone will still prefer the "Orange" network for now, even if you have a weak, but usable orange signal..... If the "Blue" network is stronger in your area, and you flop from one network to the other all the time. You need to force your phone to pick the "Blue" network 1st over the weaker signal, thus editing the seem on a vXXX phone (I do not know about steps on other phones) to acheive this, maby manual selection on some SE's.

The only major thing for the public with the OTA is to change the "Alpha Tags" on the SIM. Cingular feels that many people are confused about this "Cingular" and "Cingular Extended" display, questions like does that mean I am roaming and paying roaming fees, who am I roaming on? ohh no!!! Why am I roaming??? What happen to "Cingular" etc....It's a short term fix to calm the public, after AT&T opened their towers (aka LACs).

The ultimate goal for cingular over the next months is to convert all AT&T tower ID's to "Cingular ID's" and then they will have one big network.....

This is only true with a non-ens phone and either a 32K or 64K SIM. An ens-enable phone with a 64K sim has the ability to pick a stronger signal and lock onto it and also keep it locked onto it....


So when it says "Cingular" big deal you still are roaming if you can onto AT&T's "Blue" network when your "orange" signal really sucks!!! It still flip flops from tower to tower....

[hf1khal]

Originally posted by futureMD
Hehe. You don't have to educate kilo on what an OTA is. He was just trying to tell you what to say on the phone to sound dumb so the tech will do an OTA for you. Kilo's a tier 2 tech for Cingular. I'm sure he knows more than the majority of us about them.

I know Kilo knows his stuff. I jst wanted to put it out so as from experience that always there will be one in a crowd that will wonder what it is exactly, Plus, I guess I forgot I am in Hofo where every one knows what it stands for. Bad me. I did not mean any offense to Kilo in any way.

[EdwardP]

On my Cingular KIC (Nokia 3100) today, I went into one area that had ONE bar (out of seven), display was "Cingular" and in another area, no bars - no service. The no-service area was for about 1/4 to 1/2 mile until "Cingular Extend" appeared - meaning the OTA update had not occurred yet.

[Guest 203]

Originally posted by hf1khal
... Plus, I guess I forgot I am in Hofo where every one knows what it stands for. ...

Heh. You'd THINK HoFo-ers would all know what an OTA is, but I'll bet you, right now, that there are at least 10 people who are HoFo members who don't know what an OTA is.

Just like all the people who don't know what the difference between a 64k and 32k SIM are despite at least 10 different threads being started in the last 3 days, and a wonderful FAQ article written by Kilo on this issue, as well as other issues surrounding it.

[robwormald]

just thougth i'd point this out, but just about every phone in my store is ENS capable - nokia 3100 and 6010 - only way to tell really without knowning the corect SKU is that after the model number it actually SAYS ENS on the box. so if you're buying a phone, see if they can find one with that on the box.

[Hi-Tek]

Ok since the conclusion is that a 64k sim won't make any difference in my Non-ENS Sony T637, the only thing to do is wait until all the "Blue" towers are converted to "310-410" from "310-380"? So anyone have a clue when this will happen? And if this does happen, I assume my phone will then hang on to the stronger signal...I hope. If not I will have to drop money on a new handset taht is ENS capable....oh well. I will have to be patient.

[mspingeld]

Is the Siemens SX66(Imate PDA2K) ENS capable? How about the MPX220?

[Rube]

Originally posted by Hi-Tek
....oh well. I will have to be patient.

Good advice for all of us...

I'm trying to avoid the same problem. I want to use my unlocked 6620 with a Cing SIM (eventually), but I'm going to wait to see how the tower/network situation turns out over the next month or so.

this guy seemed to have luck with it, but NYC is a unique market (with T-Mobile and all), so I'm waiting to hear more stories like this in other parts of the country.