64K SIMS and ENS Phones Q&A (Resulting from Cingular and ATTWS Merger)

[Steve B]

Does anyone know what phones have the ENS capability?

[kilo]

Originally posted by Hi-Tek
Ok since the conclusion is that a 64k sim won't make any difference in my Non-ENS Sony T637, the only thing to do is wait until all the "Blue" towers are converted to "310-410" from "310-380"?

(man I hope I'm explaining this right, it seems like I keep questionting myself the longer this FAQ goes)

A sim card will always have one network that it prefers.

32K SIMS prefer whatever network they were originally setup on

Central Region Orange with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310410

All blue customers with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310380

West Coast Orange with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310xxx (i forget)

New York Orange with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310yyy (again i forget)

Anyone with a 64K SIM are setup to prefer 310410 BUT coupled with a ENS phone, it can fake any network Cingular chooses
IE: I have a phone number out of a town that's only Blue, so Cingular will setup my phone to prefer 310380 for now, and eventually when the networks switch, Cingular will set it up to prefer 310410
-or-
IE: I have a phone number out of New York, so Cingular will setup my phone to prefer either T-Mo or Blue depending on the load to either, and eventually when the networks switch, Cingular will set it up to prefer 310410

So what's a person with a 32K SIM to do?

Well if you live in Central Region and are Orange, nothing, your already setup to prefer what the new cingular will be.

If you are Cingular blue, Cingular would prefer you to grab one of the new 64K SIMS and ENS phones.

If you are Orange and you only have a 32K SIM, on your next upgrade take the 64K SIM and ENS phone.

Now the question comes to "Will a 64K SIM and ENS phone improve my reception" - Not necessarily. You could still be setup to prefer the exact same network you were on before. Our best hope is for Cingular to complete the "brown" or Allover network as soon as possible.

[shaggymatt]

Been reading through this thread, and have been kind of anxious to jump over to Cingular w/ my Audiovox SMT 5600. Can you tell me if that phone has ENS capabilities? I love some of the add ons that Cingular has to offer at a lower price point, I haven't even called yet to see what my FAN discount is with Orange.

Bottom line is I DON'T want to give up this phone by any means! I just got it last week and absolutely hands down this is the best and most functional phone I have ever owned.

[kilo]

Originally posted by shaggymatt
Been reading through this thread, and have been kind of anxious to jump over to Cingular w/ my Audiovox SMT 5600. Can you tell me if that phone has ENS capabilities? I love some of the add ons that Cingular has to offer at a lower price point, I haven't even called yet to see what my FAN discount is with Orange.

Bottom line is I DON'T want to give up this phone by any means! I just got it last week and absolutely hands down this is the best and most functional phone I have ever owned.

don't know about ENS, if the phone is unlocked you could always just put your Cingular SIM in it

[Hi-Tek]

Originally posted by kilo
(man I hope I'm explaining this right, it seems like I keep questionting myself the longer this FAQ goes)

A sim card will always have one network that it prefers.

32K SIMS prefer whatever network they were originally setup on

Central Region Orange with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310410

All blue customers with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310380

West Coast Orange with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310xxx (i forget)

New York Orange with 32K SIMS are setup to prefer 310yyy (again i forget)

Anyone with a 64K SIM are setup to prefer 310410 BUT coupled with a ENS phone, it can fake any network Cingular chooses
IE: I have a phone number out of a town that's only Blue, so Cingular will setup my phone to prefer 310380 for now, and eventually when the networks switch, Cingular will set it up to prefer 310410
-or-
IE: I have a phone number out of New York, so Cingular will setup my phone to prefer either T-Mo or Blue depending on the load to either, and eventually when the networks switch, Cingular will set it up to prefer 310410

So what's a person with a 32K SIM to do?

Well if you live in Central Region and are Orange, nothing, your already setup to prefer what the new cingular will be.

If you are Cingular blue, Cingular would prefer you to grab one of the new 64K SIMS and ENS phones.

If you are Orange and you only have a 32K SIM, on your next upgrade take the 64K SIM and ENS phone.

Now the question comes to "Will a 64K SIM and ENS phone improve my reception" - Not necessarily. You could still be setup to prefer the exact same network you were on before. Our best hope is for Cingular to complete the "brown" or Allover network as soon as possible.

Ok thats what i thought. I guess I will just have to wait until the "blue" towers are made to read "410". So then that's when my phone will lock into the strongest tower, right?

BTW, yesterday at lunch I stopped by an ATT store near my office to look at one of the ENS phones I was considering buying. I started talking with the rep. about the 32k vs. 64k and they were under the impression the T637 was compatible. So the person was kind enough to give me one for free to hopefuly help out my situation. Well I will tell you there is really no difference, like you (Kilo) mentioned. The only difference is when I power cycle the phone it will make 3 "failed connection" sounds and then operate normally. Actually it will stay longer on "blue" than "orange" at my house. But it will eventualy go back to "orange" and make my life difficult. Fortunately there is Halo 2 to keep me off the phone

[Colonel Taylor]

Hi-Tek, if you go into the GSM Networks menu under Connectivity, it allows you to set the network selection to manual or automatic. For the time being I've set mine to manual and it stays on the AT&T network once I've selected it.

[Mango808]

Originally posted by Colonel Taylor
Hi-Tek, if you go into the GSM Networks menu under Connectivity, it allows you to set the network selection to manual or automatic. For the time being I've set mine to manual and it stays on the AT&T network once I've selected it.

Unfortunately if you have a Cingular SIM, the Network Selection is blocked and you cannot do a manual select or change it to manual if you cannot get to it. Unless you happen to have one of those rare Old PacBell/Nevada Bell Wireless or Bell South Mobility DCS SIM cards that does not block network selection. If they have access to a T-Mobile or AT&T Wireless SIM to put in the unlocked Cingular phone, they can then change it to Manual, then put their Cingular SIM back in the phone it will be on manual select. Only problem is that it will always ask to choose the network when it finds another in the area or switches.

[jefe]

Originally posted by Mango808
Unfortunately if you have a Cingular SIM, the Network Selection is blocked and you cannot do a manual select or change it to manual if you cannot get to it. Unless you happen to have one of those rare Old PacBell/Nevada Bell Wireless or Bell South Mobility DCS SIM cards that does not block network selection. If they have access to a T-Mobile or AT&T Wireless SIM to put in the unlocked Cingular phone, they can then change it to Manual, then put their Cingular SIM back in the phone it will be on manual select. Only problem is that it will always ask to choose the network when it finds another in the area or switches.

IMHO, this is a big dis-incentive for me to change to Orange.

I occasionally, but seldom, find it beneficial to manually switch carriers here in the States. But in Europe...I use that feature all the time.

BTW...another tnx here, Kilo, for clearing up some questions I had.

My observation is the ENS/64K SIM solution is a band-aid that Cingluar is rolling out at their customers' expense. Once the networks are merged, ENS will be unnecessary and probably obsolete.

I'd prefer if they would just max out the effort to merge all towers in to one MMC which would provide the maximum benefit to all users, Orange, Blue, and new subscribers.

--jeff

[Mango808]

Originally posted by jefe
IMHO, this is a big dis-incentive for me to change to Orange.

I occasionally, but seldom, find it beneficial to manually switch carriers here in the States. But in Europe...I use that feature all the time.

In the 32K SIM, if you go on a non-US network, you gain back the network selection menu and can use it. Been hearing rumors that the 64K SIM may still block network selection even on foreign networks so that Cingular controls who you roam with abroad. It's also been said that future World Phones from Cingular will no longer be unlocked out of the box to prevent the customer from using foreign Pre-paid or Post-paid SIMs abroad. That would mean unlocking services will be making more now unless Cingular can get better international rates such as down to under a buck per minute.

My observation is the ENS/64K SIM solution is a band-aid that Cingluar is rolling out at their customers' expense. Once the networks are merged, ENS will be unnecessary and probably obsolete.
I'd prefer if they would just max out the effort to merge all towers in to one MMC which would provide the maximum benefit to all users, Orange, Blue, and new subscribers.
--jeff

I agree here that this ENS problem will only be a waste in effort and confuse more customers that won't need it to get it and when it won't be needed they will wonder why it was done or implemented in the first place. Just open the LAC of each tower to both customers everywhere as soon as possible then change all the towers to reflect the primary MNC.

[hf1khal]

Originally posted by Mango808
[B]In the 32K SIM, if you go on a non-US network, you gain back the network selection menu and can use it. Been hearing rumors that the 64K SIM may still block network selection even on foreign networks so that Cingular controls who you roam with abroad. It's also been said that future World Phones from Cingular will no longer be unlocked out of the box to prevent the customer from using foreign Pre-paid or Post-paid SIMs abroad. That would mean unlocking services will be making more now unless Cingular can get better international rates such as down to under a buck per minute.
I agree here that this ENS problem will only be a waste in effort and confuse more customers that won't need it to get it and when it won't be needed they will wonder why it was done or implemented in the first place. Just open the LAC of each tower to both customers everywhere as soon as possible then change all the towers to reflect the primary MNC.

Here is a recent actual excperience (less than a month ago) with a Cingualr V600, Cingular 32K SIM while traveling abroad. the provider that I had on the phone was lousy at that location, so I wanted to switch to the other provider, went and changed all to manual and still I could not see the others. On My ATTW phone (with the Blue SIM) I saw all and chose teh ne with the higher signal. The Cingular customer, went with a lousy reception for the remainder of the night.

So what I am saying here is that I experienced a whole diferent thing and there was no way around it.

[Mango808]

Originally posted by hf1khal
Here is a recent actual excperience (less than a month ago) with a Cingualr V600, Cingular 32K SIM while traveling abroad. the provider that I had on the phone was lousy at that location, so I wanted to switch to the other provider, went and changed all to manual and still I could not see the others. On My ATTW phone (with the Blue SIM) I saw all and chose teh ne with the higher signal. The Cingular customer, went with a lousy reception for the remainder of the night.

So what I am saying here is that I experienced a whole diferent thing and there was no way around it.

Was the Cingular activated on the East Coast or West Coast? Some have said since the West Coast Cingular was GSM from the start, they have more international roaming options offered to them than the East Coast activation. As for AT&T, they have always tried to get the most variations of roaming for their customers. Hopefully, Cingular inherited them now and can get better rates.

[hf1khal]

Originally posted by Mango808
Was the Cingular activated on the East Coast or West Coast? Some have said since the West Coast Cingular was GSM from the start, they have more international roaming options offered to them than the East Coast activation. As for AT&T, they have always tried to get the most variations of roaming for their customers. Hopefully, Cingular inherited them now and can get better rates.

The Cingular account was activated in the east coast, Florida to be exact. And yes ATTW seems to have had the best for int'l roaming and I wish Cingular implements all of Blues good points. That is one thing that will leave me on the blue side wfor as long as I cana dn if they don't fix that, them I am off to another provider (most likely back to T Mobile). But I realy hope they don't mess things up as I am a very happy Blue customer.

[CelticKuja]

Barely on topic, I know, but bear with me...
How do you know which network ID you are on? I can't find this anywhere within my T616.

[votnet]

With new 64K sim, the alfa tag is always showing Cingular, however I think I found a way to determine whether it is Cingular Blue (or others) or Orange network:

On my Nokia 6230b I can create and turn on custom Operator Logo. However, this is only possible when on home network. So if your phopne is on Orange network - it shows your custom logo, but if it is on Blue or any other, it shows "Cingular".

(Before merger, I have used blank Operator Logo, so when on Cingular Network, it didn't show any alpha tag, and if on other network it would show "Cingular Extend".
I used MobiMB to put custom Operator Logo).

[lowspeed]

I was wondering...

what happens when your on a call and the signal is too low. So lets say you are on an Orange tower and then It picks up a tmobile tower...

Does the call get dropped ? if not how they they keep the continous call between providers ?


Thanks !