The Monster USCC Off-Topic Thread

[AndThenScottSays...]

Yet The Ford F150 is the #1 selling pickup in the US.

I haven't seen numbers in years, but it used to be that this was true because GM sells the same pickup as two models. If you combined Sierra and Silverado sales they were above that of the F150.

Might still be the case; I'll look it up later when I get to work to verify.

[AndThenScottSays...]

I think Dodge (Charger, new Avenger, Challenger) and Ford (Fusion, Five Hundred (even if they renamed it to Taurus, idiots)) are trying to reinvent their brands. GM is trying with the new Impala (It's a start).

Chrysler/Dodge is dead. Cerebus is going to drain that company for all its worth and sell it piecemeal if they have to. Cancelling the Magnum was a stupid, stupid mistake. They've also said the rest of the LX cars (300/Charger) won't be redone until 2011... that's a classic GM move if there ever was one (hello Pontiac G6) and you'd think the auto industry would be smart enough as a whole not to do it anymore.

It wasn't Cerebus who did this one... but naming what is supposed to be a luxury SUV after a car everyone would probably like to forget (Aspen) was a mistake as well.

Ford is also floundering. They just can't quite get it right with cars. My parents looked at a Fusion only to find that it doesn't even come with ABS as a standard feature. Ok?? How can a 2008 model not come with even the most basic of safety features? When I bought my car, the Taurus wasn't out yet, it was still the 500. I looked at them. Who wants a 200hp slug of a car? I know they have rectified that now, but the 500 was a mistake from the beginning, and even with an identifiable name isn't selling well now. And the new Focus is a hideous looking machine. They seem to be in a rut with their design.

Ford has a chance to reinvent something with Mercury. It should become the Saturn of FoMoCo. Import everything from Europe, vary it ever so slightly to be acceptable by Americans, and sell it here. As broke as they are they probably can't do this, but it certainly would be the smartest thing.

There are two things I like about Ford. One is the Panther platform. There is still an appreciation for RWD cars built on a 1979 platform. I would LOVE to have a Crown Vic as a second car. If they would put a larger V8 in them the cars would be very respectable... the Grand Marquis has been massaged to be a pretty decent looking automobile. The other thing is the balls it took to put out the Excursion. If they released it now they would have been even more crucified than they were back then, but what a vehicle. Chevy is finally getting ready to fill that slot with diesel Suburbans -- I can't wait.

[tennessee31]

Ford has a chance to reinvent something with Mercury. It should become the Saturn of FoMoCo.

Perhaps they could start by re-branding themselves as MoFoCo.

[AndThenScottSays...]

Perhaps they could start by re-branding themselves as MoFoCo.

Good one

[droobie]

I haven't seen numbers in years, but it used to be that this was true because GM sells the same pickup as two models. If you combined Sierra and Silverado sales they were above that of the F150.

Might still be the case; I'll look it up later when I get to work to verify.

She said Chevrolet, not GM. The argument was about killing the Chevrolet brand to save the others.

--Droo, @Network

[droobie]

Chrysler/Dodge is dead.

I don't think so just yet. They're offering lifetime powertrain warranty which is something the other guys aren't. Jeep is still a well selling brand too.

Cancelling the Magnum was a stupid, stupid mistake.

Magnum was a nice car, too much money though. The Nitro is hideous. I think the Caliber is the right idea, but that, too, doesn't have anything for features on the lower models.

They've also said the rest of the LX cars (300/Charger) won't be redone until 2011..

Dodge Charger is new as of 2006 MY, 300C is as of 2005 MY. They may say they won't redo until 2011, but I have a feeling they'l end up having to do that anyway.

You're right when you say that GM did the same.

My parents looked at a Fusion only to find that it doesn't even come with ABS as a standard feature.

That is a problem. There are several other brands and models of vehicles that don't have ABS too. The ABS on the Fusion depends on trim, I do think it's a bad situation if you can't get a V6 SEL AWD with ABS though. I think they changed that for this previous MY though.

My problem with the Fusion is that it lacks a manual transmission for the V6.

Ok?? How can a 2008 model not come with even the most basic of safety features?

Several Mitsubishi models don't have it standard either. The Dodge Viper doesn't have ABS (or didn't, I think it still doesn't) The Caliber doesn't in some trims either. (Just playing devils advocate)

When I bought my car, the Taurus wasn't out yet, it was still the 500.

500 is a better name than Taurus. The rename was an error. Calling their crossover SUV a Taurus X was stupid too.

And the new Focus is a hideous looking machine. They seem to be in a rut with their design.

It actually looks better than the previous MYs I think.

Ford has a chance to reinvent something with Mercury.

The Mercury Milan looks better visually than the Fusion (though I like the new Edge and Fusion front grills). Mercury used to be more crappy (as a brand identity) but they've developed to be a good brand visually and featurewise. I'd take that model in the ads home to mother too.

I disagree that Ford has somehow failed more than GM though. GM lost almost 40 billion this past financial run, and before that they lost similar. GM hasn't totally screwed themselves because of their success in the Chinese market. Ford has also sold a lot of Mustang, Fusion and Focus vehicles. I do think Ford is trying, still losing money though.

I would LOVE to have a Crown Vic as a second car.

There are plenty of former cop ones out there. Get a Police Interceptor model

The other thing is the balls it took to put out the Excursion. If they released it now they would have been even more crucified than they were back then, but what a vehicle. Chevy is finally getting ready to fill that slot with diesel Suburbans -- I can't wait.

The Excursion was a bad idea all around. I do see them around but it was just stupid. The parking lot slots are like 19 feet, the Excursion extends past them several feet.

Chevy already had Diesel Suburbans before (at the very least GMC did). This isn't really a new concept. There are a fair deal of Suburbans here but the sales numbers do lessen as time goes on.

--Droo, @Network

[AndThenScottSays...]

She said Chevrolet, not GM. The argument was about killing the Chevrolet brand to save the others.

--Droo, @Network

I'm just pointing out why the F150 is the best selling truck. I tried to find sales figures for everything but couldn't. They're out there, I just don't know where to look.

[AndThenScottSays...]

I don't think so just yet. They're offering lifetime powertrain warranty which is something the other guys aren't. Jeep is still a well selling brand too.

A lot of people think that Jeep is going to be the first thing sold off by Cerebus. They are popular but in many ways look awful. They are taking Jeep down the pathetic design road down which Ford is heading out of control.

Several Mitsubishi models don't have it standard either. The Dodge Viper doesn't have ABS (or didn't, I think it still doesn't) The Caliber doesn't in some trims either. (Just playing devils advocate)

Viper isn't mainstream by any stretch of the imagination so I'm not counting that. Mainstream sedans should have items like that as standard features. I can see the Caliber not having it because technically it competes as an econobox, but the Fusion is supposed to be a family car. Malibu has it standard (Malibu has a LOT standard that the Fusion doesn't) and that's really the Fusion's most direct class competitor.

500 is a better name than Taurus. The rename was an error. Calling their crossover SUV a Taurus X was stupid too.

I disagree here. The Taurus is a known name. Nobody knew what a "Five Hundred" was.

I disagree that Ford has somehow failed more than GM though. GM lost almost 40 billion this past financial run, and before that they lost similar. GM hasn't totally screwed themselves because of their success in the Chinese market. Ford has also sold a lot of Mustang, Fusion and Focus vehicles. I do think Ford is trying, still losing money though.

Ford is trying, I'll give them that, but they just aren't quite making the cut. There's too many things wrong with too many cars.

There are plenty of former cop ones out there. Get a Police Interceptor model

I'd rather have something like the LX model with more luxury features. And a backseat that wasn't peed in weekly by meth addicts.

The Excursion was a bad idea all around. I do see them around but it was just stupid. The parking lot slots are like 19 feet, the Excursion extends past them several feet.

The Excursion was a bad idea in some aspects, but as a vehicle I loved the concept. There is nothing 'too big' IMO. I wish they still made cars the size of a '73 Electra.

Chevy already had Diesel Suburbans before (at the very least GMC did). This isn't really a new concept.

They both had them but they stopped manufacturing them sometime in the mid 90s. Big mistake IMO and I think enough people are waiting for the return that it'll have success. I'd like one.

[droobie]

A lot of people think that Jeep is going to be the first thing sold off by Cerebus. They are popular but in many ways look awful. They are taking Jeep down the pathetic design road down which Ford is heading out of control.

The Liberty sells well, but I'm not sure what they were thinking building that boxy *** commander thing.

I disagree here. The Taurus is a known name. Nobody knew what a "Five Hundred" was.

Five Hundred sounds like something somewhat luxurious. Taurus reminds you of that crappy car along with the Tempo that left you stranded on the side of the road for hours back in the late 80s and early 90s.

I'd rather have something like the LX model with more luxury features. And a backseat that wasn't peed in weekly by meth addicts.

Then buy one from the FL market. Only thing in them is old people.

The Excursion was a bad idea in some aspects, but as a vehicle I loved the concept. There is nothing 'too big' IMO. I wish they still made cars the size of a '73 Electra.

My mother had an 70s Era Electra Limited through my childhood ironically.

--Droo, @Network

[AndThenScottSays...]

Five Hundred sounds like something somewhat luxurious. Taurus reminds you of that crappy car along with the Tempo that left you stranded on the side of the road for hours back in the late 80s and early 90s.

I guess this is subjective. I think of a fairly large and comfortable car. I had a 2000-something for a service loaner once... rode like a dream on the highway.

[hawaiisun21]

Yet The Ford F150 is the #1 selling pickup in the US.

--Droo, @Network

I didn't say Chevy had the #1 selling pickup in the US, did I? I said Chevy sells more...which is true because they have several pickup models that are all high sellers. Total combined, Chevy sells more pickups than does Ford. I should say I know for sure that was true in 2006; I am not sure as to 2007 because I no longer work at a GM dealership, so I don't get to read the nifty magazine. Just out of curiosity, do you always argue everything?

You're a girl AND you're a GM nerd?? Do you really exist?

I have a 2007 Grand Prix GT named "Speedy". Love that car. Enormous, a trunk you could fit half the contents of your house in, good highway mileage (sucky city mileage, ~18) and FAST. I bought it about a year ago. Almost bought an Impala SS with the LS4 V8 in it... now that was a fast car. Test drove a Saturn Aura too... that one's also a homerun for GM, just a bit smaller than what I was looking for.

The GTO didn't sell well because the Pontiac dealers decided it was a hot item and marked it $5000+ over sticker. That doesn't work at a Chevrolet dealership, let alone Pontiac. I got a rebate at purchase plus 0% financing on my GP... that is what people are looking for at a Pontiac dealership. It's somewhat sad that's what GM has to use to get people through the doors, but hey they're trying to change that. Which leads me to the next point....

...the Pontiac G8. Basically a GTO with 4 doors (it's just the newer version of the Holden Commodore). This car is much more in the mainstream and can succeed if the dealerships themselves don't go and screw it up again. I hope they don't; If I don't go back to an SUV or pickup I want one of these when my loan is up.

The G5 is a nice looking car but good heavens does it scream "girly" compared to the Cobalt. They're nice automobiles though... I'm just glad they didn't put out a 4 door version of it to Pontiac.

I swear, I really do exist I'm more of a Pontiac nerd....but I know a lot about GM as well. Right before the Pontiac dealership I worked at shut down, we had an Army recruiter that's right around my age come in and want to buy a GTO. I couldn't find a salesperson anywhere, so I spent over an hour talking to him about the car. He kept trying to "stump" me with facts about it...and he couldn't do it. It was funny. Not all dealerships marked up the sticker for the GTO so high...mine didn't. We didn't even mark up the Solstice when that car was released. A lot of people really hated the GTO because it looked more like a family car than the classic muscle car of old. The G8 isn't technically a newer version of the Commodore....they do share the same platform. The G8 will do a lot better because Pontiac isn't trying to market it as a re-birth of one of their most popular cars ever. In all actuality, the only reason the GTO got cancelled was because Holden was discontinuing the platform, and it would have been too much money to make the necessary safety changes in order to bring the production states-side. Therefore, hello G8. The G5 is a really girly car, but that's okay because...I'm a girl. Lol

There actually is a 4 dr version of the Pontiac...it's in Canada. Hideously ugly. Pontiac Pursuit....yuck!

[AndThenScottSays...]

The G8 rolls off the same production line as the Holden Commodore. There's supposed to be like 2500 on the way to a west coast port. They're on a boat in the Pacific somewhere. Did the dealership you worked at only sell Pontiac or did they sell the other brands too? I've heard there are still some Pontiac-only dealerships left but they are few and far between.

Canada gets some real pathetic rebadges for Pontiac. There used to be a version of the Corsica called the Tempest, a version of the Tracker called the Sunrunner, and there's currently a version of the Aveo called the Wave.

[droobie]

I didn't say Chevy had the #1 selling pickup in the US, did I?

You are correct, I stand corrected.

I said Chevy sells more...

I do not agree that Chevy sells more trucks than Ford, I agree that GM does. From what I could find - Chevrolet sold less Pickups than Ford did for 2007. GM has beat Ford for a long time though overall.

I still have no idea why they bother having two lines, I think it's just because of history.

--Droo, @Network

[droobie]

Canada gets some real pathetic rebadges for Pontiac. There used to be a version of the Corsica called the Tempest, a version of the Tracker called the Sunrunner, and there's currently a version of the Aveo called the Wave.

I was doing data entry for in-dash mounts for satellite radio/cell phone/etc. and sometimes the Wave had a different PN than the Aveo even though they should essentially be the same car. *shakes head* Just enough of a difference to make things painful. I have no idea why they do that.

I remember last time I was up there, the hot thing for Canada was the Cobalt. They actually crammed one in the sign at Rogers Centre. I thought maybe it was a picture but there's actually lights in the box and it makes it more obvious.



--Droo, @Network

[droobie]

http://www.motherjones.com/news/feat...-playlist.html

Mother Jones Magazine put out a list of songs they use at Gitmo interrogations. I don't know what's worse, the fact some of these tracks I actually like, or the fact there's no Mariah on there?

The Meow Mix theme is one of them. Not one of the ones I like, but it's on the list. I can only imagine how that must be on repeat for a while.

--Droo, @Network