Honestly, I've been tethering for years and have had no billing problems at all.
I also receive polite and useful help on those rare occasions I have to call and ask about it. You'd think if there were something wrong they'd have said so.
Verizon doesn't want their customers using EVDO capable handsets to tether, whether they are in an EVDO area or not. Nor do they care if you have VCAST or not. I haven't seen tethering using 1XRTT as a violation of the TOS, but I have seen tethering using your VCAST package as a violation of the TOS.
Take it Easy,
Arch
Evidence? I mean, nothing personal, but can you please tell me why I shouldn't trust the Verizon tech support people that I've been working with for years and who have never steered me wrong before?
Yes, I've seen this thread. What were the real issues? Tethering pure and simple? Never allowed, never ever, not a single kb? Or was something more involved? Why would so many tech support and data support people tell me that my practice is perfectly fine? I check email and do some modest browsing. No big secret.
I forgot to mention that apparently VZ gets to charge us interest on our backpayments. The $59 a month for two years is less than $1,500 total, so to run that up to $5K borders on usury doesn't it?
What will those Krazy Kiosk Kiddies come up with next?
Also, does anyone know why that thread was closed so quickly? Any conspiracy theorists out there? Enquiring minds want to know.
Of course verbal contracts are binding. Otherwise, a rep (or tech support) could lie to sell you anything and not be liable.
Sadly, sales and tech suport people can and do lie all the time. And, no, the corporation is not liable for their lies. That's why they invented fine print. Caveat emptor!
When protesting charges, it is often difficult to bring a copy of your verbal contract. "They said," and "I was told," rarely work to the benefit of the complainant. At least not in this Country!
But good luck to you. Please do as you think best. No skin off my nose either way. Ciao!
Sadly, sales and tech suport people can and do lie all the time. And, no, the corporation is not liable for their lies. That's why they invented fine print. Caveat emptor!
When protesting charges, it is often difficult to bring a copy of your verbal contract. "They said," and "I was told," rarely work to the benefit of the complainant. At least not in this Country!
But good luck to you. Please do as you think best. No skin off my nose either way. Ciao!
My dog ate it!
Believe me, I know Verizon personnel make up stuff all the time, but I rarely think they're intentionally lying, just trying to make sense out of a difficult technical field and an even more frustrating Verizon business model. If you don't have good interpersonal or negotiating skills or a good relationship with your local store personnel, then have them annotate your account. Honestly, I have never been charged for anything that I hadn't agreed to ahead of time and I know that Verizon values my business and will treat me well as long as I pay my bill. Pay the piper and dance along. The world will not end tomorrow.
I forgot to mention that apparently VZ gets to charge us interest on our backpayments. The $59 a month for two years is less than $1,500 total, so to run that up to $5K borders on usury doesn't it?
What will those Krazy Kiosk Kiddies come up with next?
Also, does anyone know why that thread was closed so quickly? Any conspiracy theorists out there? Enquiring minds want to know.
Thanks, but you started it. Some holy guy once said that some demons can only be cast out by prayer and fasting, but laughter is a hell of a lot more fun, don't you think? WRT BFEINZIMER's thread being closed, I figured that Moderator HF 6 thought it was becoming a way to test the limits of Verizon's radar.
OK, time to revert to stealth mode again, bogies at 12:00!
Actually they are liable for their lies. They are liable for all the torts (a tort is basically a wrongful action) of their employees committed within the scope of work. Laywers call this "respondeat superior". Also, just because something is written into the contract doesnt mean its enforcable. Many contracts are unenforcable, and many clauses in contracts are unenforcable, for example all contracts made with minors can be voided at any time by the minor. Additionaly, if a contract is not clear or definite about some issue, the contract is unenforcable in regards to that issue. Regarding things Verizon employees tell you, Verizon is liable for any statements that employee makes within the scope of the business. If you call a Verizon customer service person and they tell you that it's ok to do such and such with your phone, Verizon is liable for any damages that may result from that, because Verizon hired that employee and Verizon gave that employee apparent authority to act on its behalf. It's as if Mr. Verizon himself had told you it's ok. If you want to double check this stuff (I highly recommend you do so, I am getting this information out of a Business Law book, but I am not a lawyer or a law student) you should research contract law and also agency law, particularly with regards to the principal's liability for the actions of its agents.
Very well stated and correct from my personal experiences in court. The standard applied by Courts is what a "Reasonable Person" would do. If you were told by an "Agent" for the company (Customer Service) something is permissable, (Tethering) then the Company has granted you permission or an exclusion to the original boilerplate contract.
Again, those that oppose tethering, why don't you just admit why you don't like it? I have a hard time believing it's because you are so upstanding or moral that it "Shocks" your senses and you must take a stand. A few have just seemed pissed that they've paid for data plans with their PDA's and others are using it without additional charges.
We all agree there is no way to get a data plan from VZ for tethering with an EVDO phone don't we? Do you suppose that VZ is waiting to see what the demand is? Maybe there's only 300 of us across the country and they couldn't possibly make a profit by creating all the detail stuff to put a data plan out there for EVDO phones yet. Remember, there's only 20 or so EVDO areas so far, and a small percentage of VZ users in each area with EVDO phones. Probably a very small percent of those phone users who are interested in any kind of data service.
Very well stated and correct from my personal experiences in court. The standard applied by Courts is what a "Reasonable Person" would do. If you were told by an "Agent" for the company (Customer Service) something is permissable, (Tethering) then the Company has granted you permission or an exclusion to the original boilerplate contract.
Again, those that oppose tethering, why don't you just admit why you don't like it? I have a hard time believing it's because you are so upstanding or moral that it "Shocks" your senses and you must take a stand. A few have just seemed pissed that they've paid for data plans with their PDA's and others are using it without additional charges.
We all agree there is no way to get a data plan from VZ for tethering with an EVDO phone don't we? Do you suppose that VZ is waiting to see what the demand is? Maybe there's only 300 of us across the country and they couldn't possibly make a profit by creating all the detail stuff to put a data plan out there for EVDO phones yet. Remember, there's only 20 or so EVDO areas so far, and a small percentage of VZ users in each area with EVDO phones. Probably a very small percent of those phone users who are interested in any kind of data service.
the problem is proving in court what was said verbally to you. get it documented though and that's easy but just having your word VS theirs is a really hard position to defend.
it doesn't shock me, i actuallly help people who want to tether on 1x. i just don't want my clients who tether to wind up getting warning letters/phone calls (some tether a lot) and have to deal with the extra hassle. so i sell them a phone that is 1x capable only and i never have to worry about it. it's a way to cover my ***. VZW has been very vague with what kinda of "abuse" it will take to get a phone call/warned and i'd rather not risk that for my clients.
there are over 50 markets that are EVDO now. dunno where you got 20. it's not a small percentage of users on the network are data users. it's actually a pretty large percentage. i'd also say 1 out of every 10 people i sell wants to use the phone as a modem. do you remember the mobile office kits? they came with the software to do it, now you don't see them being sold for EVDO phones. there is a motivation there for not offering them for EVDO phones.
Very well stated and correct from my personal experiences in court. The standard applied by Courts is what a "Reasonable Person" would do. If you were told by an "Agent" for the company (Customer Service) something is permissable, (Tethering) then the Company has granted you permission or an exclusion to the original boilerplate contract.
Again, those that oppose tethering, why don't you just admit why you don't like it? I have a hard time believing it's because you are so upstanding or moral that it "Shocks" your senses and you must take a stand. A few have just seemed pissed that they've paid for data plans with their PDA's and others are using it without additional charges.
We all agree there is no way to get a data plan from VZ for tethering with an EVDO phone don't we? Do you suppose that VZ is waiting to see what the demand is? Maybe there's only 300 of us across the country and they couldn't possibly make a profit by creating all the detail stuff to put a data plan out there for EVDO phones yet. Remember, there's only 20 or so EVDO areas so far, and a small percentage of VZ users in each area with EVDO phones. Probably a very small percent of those phone users who are interested in any kind of data service.
I'm not against tethering, I just get tired of people bickering if it's allowed or not. Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over Over and over ....well you get the point.
-No longer have any affiliations with Verizon Wireless, aside from my personal service. WOOT! I'm FREE!
-Part of the VZW Customer Council
-It's all Bumblebee tuna to me.
It's posted on the VZ web site that there are 44 cities with Broadband/EVDO service currently, so we're both off. You're closer though as long as the description "Broadband/EVDO" means BOTH not one or the other.
For my old Audiovox CDM8900 there never was a Mobile Office Kit offered when I bought it, I had to go into the LG accessories page and use that. The cable, by the way, was interchangeable, as was the setup in MOK. I learned that info right here on HoFo. So that argument is null & void as far as I'm concerned. I'd imagine one of the current Motorola Kits will work just fine. I'm using Bluetooth with my old desktop software, but I suspect the USB cable works for many Mot. models.
I guess I'm just surprised that every time someone starts a new thread about tethering, about 3-4 regulars jump in to claim all the bad things that "Might" happen by using EVDO for data downloads. One Bozo even said he'll have a good laugh when I get terminated. Doesn't sound like someone is trying to help when they are hoping you get busted. Why would that make them feel better? Another jerk claimed you can get back billed for about $5,000, because he's seen it happen. Who should we believe, and why? Should we listen to the people who are using the service without problems, or those who seem to have an agenda but cannot support their position with facts?
As far as what percentage of EVDO phone users want data capability, you say 1 out of 10 WANT TO use it as a modem. I wonder how many actually USE IT as a modem? How is it that all these people come to you to find out about this type of service? Or, do you bring it up first? Do you think one out of every 10 people who have cell phones also have a laptop, AND want to use their cellphone for internet access?
Enquiring minds...
PS: SlaveRep
Ever see the movie, "The People VS Larry Flint"? one statement he made about his publication, HUSTLER was, "If you don't like my magazine, don't buy it".
You posted: "I'm not against tethering, I just get tired of people bickering if it's allowed or not." well, why get involved in the thread if it bothers you so much?
I guess I'm just surprised that every time someone starts a new thread about tethering, about 3-4 regulars jump in to claim all the bad things that "Might" happen by using EVDO for data downloads. One Bozo even said he'll have a good laugh when I get terminated. Doesn't sound like someone is trying to help when they are hoping you get busted. Why would that make them feel better? Another jerk claimed you can get back billed for about $5,000, because he's seen it happen. Who should we believe, and why? Should we listen to the people who are using the service without problems, or those who seem to have an agenda but cannot support their position with facts?
Originally Posted by George Knighton
"Do you want a piece of me lady?" - Dr. Phil
ALL GAVE SOME, SOME GAVE ALL. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND OUR TROOPS!
."
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