Did Bell Mobility ever activate and charge for GPS service without your ever asking for it or ever agreeing to be charged for it? Do they have this technical possibility? One of their CS Agents said Yes while another said No

In the samsung forum I posted the following, which is inter-related with the above question:

http://www.howardforums.com/showthread.php?t=1587987

I am in dispute with Bell Mobility Canada. They are pretending that we downloaded the software for GPS shortly after we got the Samsung Instinct, which we did not. They charged twice: Once in April 2009 and once in September 2009 saying that we agreed to be charged and downloaded twice the software on each of the above dates, which we did not.

Now, since they do not sell this model, they do not know anything about it.

The question is: Does the Samsung Instinct come pre-loaded with the software when it is still packaged and new? As soon as we got it, it had the logo for GPS and all the other things, but actually if you click on whatever is charged, e.g. GPS you are supposed to get a message from Bell Mobility asking if you want to do this and advising you that there will be monthly fee of $10, and only after you agree, so Bell says, it prompts you to download the software first.

Since all of them, including technical and all their Bell stores, and their phone Customer Service, admitted that they do NOT actually know how the Samsung Instinct is when you just get it, or how it functions, I would much appreciate knowing the answer to the above.

Thank you.

Yes the Instinct does have the GPS application built in. Upon opening the application, it should ask you if you want to subscribe first.

does bell charge for using google maps?

Only data usage.

And that data is not seperate from the data included in your plan (in my case 500mb), correct? It wont be charged on a pay per use basis right?

From your reply, am I to infer that ALL the Bell Supervisors and Customer Servicer Agents and Billing Supervisors I spoke to LIED to me saying that their records show that my daughter actually downloaded the software on both the April 2009 and 15th September 2009, and that the Samsung Instinct comes without the software?

DID THEY LIE TO ME OR GIVE ME WRONG INFO, ALL OF THEM, SAYING THAT THEIR SYSTEM SHOWS THAT WE DID IN FACT DOWNLOAD THE SOFTWARE TWICE ?

They told me that the proof is that my daughter must have immediately received an automatic system email advising her that her GPS has been activated and that she will be charged? SHE NEVER NEVER RECEIVED SUCH AN EMAIL ON BOTH DATES, so I asked Bell to check THEIR email broadcoasts and they said their system does not keep copies of such emails.

Also on our customer online account there are NO RECORDS BEING KEPT AT ALL OF EMAIL ALERTS OR ADVICES SENT TO CUSTOMERS.

Their system stinks!

They charge you with something, say they have no proof of it except for their word ("what they themselves see on their system WHICH THEY CANNOT SHOW YOU"") and their famous system keeps no record of your having agreed to accept charges and activation and their system keeps no record of any email advises or alerts sent to you, not even on your customer account.

SO WHAT YOU SAY IS THAT NEW SAMSUNG INSTINCTS COME PRE-LOADED WITH THE GPS SOFTWARE AND THAT THERE IS NO SOFTWARE TO DOWNLOAD IF YOU THINK OF ACTIVATING THIS FEATURE?

I am speaking here of the SOFTWARE and not the prompt to confirm on whether you want to activate and agree to be charged.

CLewis: It was nice that you answered to one question (on whether the GPS is pre-loaded in new Samsung Instincts, but you did not answer the first most important question: CAN THE BELL SYSTEM OR BELL EMPLOYEES ACTIVATE YOUR GPS WITHOUT YOUR KNOWLEDGE AND WITHOUT ASKING FOR YOUR CONFIRMATION FIRST?

They accuse us for 2 dates, began charging begnning April (then dropped it after I wasted hours in dispute with them) and then now in the new bill, revealing that it began AGAIN on September 25, refusing to accept our assurance that we NEVER asked to activate GPS nor agreed to activate it. They treat me as a liar and refuse to give the full refund. I wasted a whole day of dispute with them LAST THURSDAY, AND PART OF FRIDAY, AND WROTE A 3 PAGE HUGE COMPLAINT TO THEIR EXECUTIVE OFFICE (no phone is given, just mail address and a fax) AND until now their Exec Office NEVER responds to complaints, nor does their REGIONAL office in Surrey

Not only that but the Billing Supervisor had the CHEEK to put a comment on the Customer file of ours saying THIS CUSTOMER MADE A SIMILAR COMPLAINT IN APRIL 2009 - THEREFORE NO FURTHER REFUNDS ARE TO BE ACCEPTED.

They do everything wrong and have no actual proof to show us, treating us as liars, and then they put a negative remark, following which I am not ALLOWED to speak to any other Billing Supervisor or Supervisor AT ALL.

So it is a dictatorship by ONE BELL SUPERVISOR and the client cannot speak to any other Supervisor after that.

gpsnav from bell has two options.. you can pay per day or pay per month.
the app comes pre-installed on many phones but can still require a download for voices and some other stuff when you first try to use it..
every time you login to it though it verifies your account to see if you have subscribed and if not it will prompt you of the two subscription options.
what exactly is the fee that they are trying to bill you for? the $3 for a day or $10 for a month?

It is $10 a month. But we never agreed to it and never "downloaded GPS software" to the phone as they claim (not on either date they mention, april and september).

Instead of admitting their mistake or providing proof (e.g. copy of the email they claim the system sent advising that GPS has been activated "as requested" saying there would be a charge, or having such info on the Customer's online account, they just treat the customer as liar.

But it is not only that. Since I renewed our contract for 3 more years they have constantly tried to charge my own phone with extras (eg sending me a text message saying I had the call detect for free as trial, when my contract already includes it), and giving less minutes in the statement than what our contract stipulates, or charging for upgrade, when I have in writing, signed, by the Bell store that the fee is waived for extending the contract and getting the new phone, and for my daughter's phone constantly overcharging for services already included in our contract and for extras (eg when we were forced to pay an extra $3 so we could get free incoming messages and with the $3 each could send 30 messages for free) they charge every 2 months or so for the 15 or so messages my daughter sends totally ignoring the $3 text message package, and other things.

They are constantly trying to find a way to enlarge the bill. And this GPS thing is just the last straw, especially since it is the second time and they INSIST it was activated through the phone and they say there is no way the phone keeps an events record (blaming it on the Samsung equipment) and it cannot be proven. That supervisor also wrote in my account by Bell that because WE had a similar claim in April 2009 NO MORE REFUNDS ARE TO BE GIVEN and, now, ONE CANNOT SPEAK TO ANY SUPERVISOR. They refuse saying that since one supervisor dealt with it, no other supervisor will speak with me and that THERE IS NO WAY TO LEAVE A MESSAGE TO THE ORIGINAL BILLING SUPERVISOR (one Billing Agent pretended she does not even exist, whereas, 2 days later, one NORMAL customer service agent checked and found she really exists as supervisor in Billing Department).

Bell has no respect for its customers.
Instead of correcting whichever system they have which automatically charges for services WE NEVER ASKED FOR and WHICH THEY CANNOT PROVE they treat us as liars and as if we have no choice - they decide LIKE DICTATORS and I have a good mind to write a whole letter to the government and to the press. SHAME ON BELL!

Besides that snail mail address and fax no. in Ontario of their Executive Office do you have a phone to the RIGHT person in the Head Office to whom I may complain?

DO YOU SEE? WE DID NOT EVEN KNOW THAT THEY HAVE TWO DIFFERENT CHARGES. YOU SAY BELL CHARGES EITHER $3 A DAY OR $10 A MONTH. ALL WE KNOW IS THAT TWICE THEY CHARGED $10 PER MONTH WHEN THE BILL CAME FOR BOTH THE PRECEDING MONTH AND THE FORTHCOMING MONTH IN ADVANCE. And then I get upset and phone and waste every time at least two full days talking and arguing with them (MORE THAN 8 HOURS A DAY each time)

I have a feeling there's more. They don't just slap accounts with random charges. It is very possible the app has been opened and subscribed to if the phone isn't locked properly. Perhaps the phone has been held by others to play around with, and they saw GPS and though cool, let's check it out. You are not in posession of the phone. How do you know for sure that your daughter didn't subscribe to it?

I understand your doubts.
One thing should be clear: The GPS two instances (april and september) are NOT the only wrong charges Bell Mobility slapped on us SINCE WE RENEWED OUR CONTRACT beginning 2009.

Before that, they did not charge unjustifiable charges, nor did they try every now and then to change the terms of our contract (e.g. less minutes, or trying to charge extra for call display when it is already included in our package)

As related above, AFTER we renewed our contract, they began with my own phone. Someone in billing must have been upset that Bell renewed for us on the same terms, so they said I do NOT have the 100 free long distance per month, nor did I have the extra 100 mins. per month (we have the zpreferred plan). The girl was very very rude on the phone and kept on saying that I myself THOUGHT that I had renewed with the same terms, but that I wasn't. I kept on telling her that ït is not that I THOUGHT but that Bell Mobility on the phone and in the store, and in the renewal contract they gave me, CONFIRMED that I and my daughter renewed under the same terms.

I had a contract in hand, in print, signed by the Bell store, but the Billing Department (wherever they are) CHANGED MY ACCOUNT BY THEM, I.E. ON THE RECORDS THEY KEEP.

At that stage, just the first fortnight, they did not play with my daughter's account. It showed all the features we had.

Having learned that some Bell employees, especially in the billing department are ignorant and therefore begin asserting their own lies and quarrel stupidly, my daughter advised to stop the conversation and call a few hours later to get a NORMAL person, which I did. this second person was polite, said they made a mistake (or THE SYSTEM MADE A MISTAKE - as they always blame it on the system) and corrected my account record ON THE SYSTEM.

I did not trust that and for a few months kept on calling them and checking page 2 of my statement and my daughter's statement to see if all features appear as agreed and signed for.

My daughter dare not lie to me because I myself PAY HER BILLS and she knows that the minute there is an extra charge (exceeding her minutes or whatever) I would re-direct the bills to her.

The first time it happened in APRIL, the customer service agent in Bell admitted there was a mistake and credited my daughter''s bill back

But at least every 2 months since we renewed they played a LOT with my daughter's charges and sometimes with mine, e.g. Although in our package we have call display, and 911, they kept on sending us text messages saying Have you enjoyed call display (or 911) which until now you enjoyed free? If you wish to retain this feature you will be charged $..... per month

I always had to call Bell and remonstrate with them and wait while they went to check BOTH CONTRACTS and then come back finally and admit that we do have these features free of charge included in our package.

then they tried twice to reduce my daughter's amount of minutes, and the list goes on.

SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG EITHER WITH THE PEOPLE OF BELL OR WITH THEIR SYSTEM. Does their system need FINETUNING? They should check it, or is it their BILLING DEPARTMENT who manually always try to find ways to increase charges?

Are there any Bell employees or supervisors on this forum? Is midnight one of them? He has a Bell logo next to his name. Or you, clewis - are you with Bell?

Phone usage things like this Bell doesn't just sit around and say, "hey, ill screw with person A today." I'd say your daughter or a friend of hers did it, its not hard to press by mistake. I have never had a random usage show up on my bills for something I didn't use. When I screwed up my phone and was billed for it, it was my fault. You're wasting you breath, especially if this is just over $20.

GG

GPSNav does not accidentally get added on Bell's end. It's very likely that your daughter added it, or as already mentioned, someone else did from the phone itself.

Now i'm not saying your daughter is lying to you. She may not remember, or even know that she accepted the charge. But the mistake was definitely done from the handset, unless a Bell employee added it for whatever reason (in which case it'd be timestamped with their name)

This is interesting: As I said, in my first long conversation with the Billing Supervisor she said that the GPS COULD be activated by a Bell employee. Later, someone else said No, it can only be activated from the phone itself.

Please reconfirm clearly: CAN THE GPS BE ACTIVATED BY A BELL EMPLOYEE?
This is the whole point

(+ there was another point which was clarified above about the software being pre-installed when you just get the Samsung Instinct from Bell, when ALL Bell people, including that Billing supervisor INSIST that we DOWNLOADED THE SOFTWARE since the software does not automatically come with the phone).

My daughter did no sleepover by friends and allows NO-ONE, not even ME, to use her phone.

How can it be by mistake if one gets a prompt asking to reconfirm and advising one that it will be charged?

We did not even know that they have two different charges for GPS as mentioned above (monthly and/or per incident).

I am not wasting my breath because at least EVERY TWO BILLS, BELL IS MAKING MISTAKES AND ADDING DIFFERENT CHARGES TO MY DAUGHTER'S BILL AND EVEN CHANGING THE BUNDLE SETUP.

I want all this to STOP

Besides, IF they claim something, e.g. activating GPS, they must have PROOF. One cannot check it on the phone itself (it keeps no record of events except for phones made and and received and texts sent and received) + Bell does not keep record or copy of ANYTHING on client's online account, not even the system emails they send to advise of new services added and charged.