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Thread: US national healthcare funded by ~12% VAT; all problems solved with 25% VAT

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    US national healthcare funded by ~12% VAT; all problems solved with 25% VAT

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...pf.html?change

    What would it cost? Emanuel argues in his book that a 10 percent VAT would pay for every American not entitled to Medicare or Medicaid to enroll in a health plan with no deductibles and minimal copayments. In his 2008 book, "100 Million Unnecessary Returns," Yale law professor Michael J. Graetz estimates that a VAT of 10 to 14 percent would raise enough money to exempt families earning less than $100,000 -- about 90 percent of households -- from the income tax and would lower rates for everyone else.

    And in a paper published last month in the Virginia Tax Review, Burman suggests that a 25 percent VAT could do it all: Pay for health-care reform, balance the federal budget and exempt millions of families from the income tax while slashing the top rate to 25 percent. A gallon of milk would jump from $3.69 to $4.61, and a $5,000 bathroom renovation would suddenly cost $6,250, but the nation's debt would stabilize and everybody could see a doctor.
    Shouldn't national healthcare require an amendment to the Constitution?

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    I'd gladly pay a 12% national VAT if it would guarantee almost free healthcare for everyone. But I know in the real world of Washington politics it would never be that simple. Social Security,Medicare,and Medicaid were all established w/o a Constitutional Amendments so I'm sure it needn't be required.
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    I shouldn't have to pay a 25% VAT because Washington spends stupidly and Washington stupidly bailed out companies THAT FAILED. That Washington allows pork because "it's a right" is an excuse. That we waste money on war(s) that were unnecessary.

    I don't mind a 10%-14% VAT for healthcare only if it meant getting what I needed when I can with minimal cost. Yes, I have employer insurance that is pretty good, but I'm not selfish in this regard. I become selfish when I, the taxpayer has to pay for Government's decades of mistakes and stupid spending.

    There was a period I spent stupidly personally, and I bit a very hard bullet for it. I made cuts to get past it, I re-thought what I spent, and now am more wise with a flush amount of cash in bank account (relative to what I used to have) and no desire to want to always spend it. Washington refuses to take that road for potentially years to fix everything and get back to an actual surplus and KEEP that surplus in case another downturn comes.

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    The problem with a VAT is that the liberals will scream that it would unfairly affect the poor. Low income families and individuals who currently pay no income tax at all would now have to pay VAT. So someone who is currently paying $3.69 for a gallon of milk and doesn't owe a cent in income tax (actually if you think about it, with the earned income credit they pay no income tax and they still get a refund), under a VAT system, they still won't owe a cent in income tax, but would now have to pay more for that gallon of milk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbo298
    I shouldn't have to pay a 25% VAT because Washington spends stupidly and Washington stupidly bailed out companies THAT FAILED. That Washington allows pork because "it's a right" is an excuse. That we waste money on war(s) that were unnecessary.

    I don't mind a 10%-14% VAT for healthcare only if it meant getting what I needed when I can with minimal cost. Yes, I have employer insurance that is pretty good, but I'm not selfish in this regard. I become selfish when I, the taxpayer has to pay for Government's decades of mistakes and stupid spending.

    There was a period I spent stupidly personally, and I bit a very hard bullet for it. I made cuts to get past it, I re-thought what I spent, and now am more wise with a flush amount of cash in bank account (relative to what I used to have) and no desire to want to always spend it. Washington refuses to take that road for potentially years to fix everything and get back to an actual surplus and KEEP that surplus in case another downturn comes.
    You almost sound like a true conservative.
    Hartford, CT Area

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    OOPS.......double post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRC72
    You almost sound like a true conservative.
    Hey! I resent that I'm just in the middle with more of a lean to the liberal side. Doesn't mean I can't take on some conservative views

    Spending is necessary. It has to happen. Every little thing adds up in the end. I recall a recent story about a minor math error for I think the Pentagon? that involved decades of small overpayments that added up to millions. That millions could have been used wisely but no one cared to look. That million dollar pork project stuffed into a 'trillion dollar budget' seems like small change, but when everyone wants to do it every year, millions becomes billions.

    Unfortunately, while Obama wants a fine tooth comb run through the budget, no one wants to do it because it requires time and effort and when every little thing gets scrutinized that isn't necessary, politicians make the worst excuses to get their ways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonbo298
    Hey! I resent that I'm just in the middle with more of a lean to the liberal side. Doesn't mean I can't take on some conservative views
    That's cool.... At least your open minded.

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    Get rid of Medicare and SS taxes and then we can talk about a VAT.

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    if innovation doesn't subside because of a government sponsored healthcare system, i'm all for paying a tax so everyone can have some level of coverage. my only gripe about a subsidized healthcare plan is, like the TARP plan, we'd be paying to cover for other people's foolish decisions. i don't mind paying for the person who has cancer but not if the person led a hedonistic lifestyle without abandon because he knew he would be covered.

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    And there's the tripping point.Non-smokers could argue against smokers. Vegans against fast-food eaters. etc.... If we all were to be judgemental enough we could question any number other peoples' claims. In effect we would be behaving just like a health insurance company. Now where would we draw the line?

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    In a way though, that same moral hazard applies right now with insurance companies. People know they're covered so they do what they want. This, in turn raises the premium costs for everyone. I don't know that the moral hazard argument would work with a national healthcare system, since we're seeing it already. Except those who were previously not covered, would be covered. I just don't think it's the government's job to get into the healthcare business.

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    As it currently stands, these same people drive our rates up, so nothing would really be different. I think it would be fair, however, to have people pay a deductible if they're smokers, alcoholics, morbidly obese, etc. They did this to themselves, and if anything, paying a little more may make them cut back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by huskyfan23
    Get rid of Medicare and SS taxes and then we can talk about a VAT.
    Or... we could just get rid of Medicare and SS (and not talk about VAT).
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    Quote Originally Posted by NexTel32708
    Or... we could just get rid of Medicare and SS (and not talk about VAT).
    Maybe, maybe not. Whatever the case, I'd like government-funded healthcare. It would cut healthcare costs for employers, which would increase salaries, expand growth, etc. My employer pays for 100% of my healthcare costs. I haven't been to the doctor yet, but considering all of the families that do use the benefits, that has to be a HUGE amount of money each year.

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