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Thread: Nexus One: Non T-Mobile 3G phone /w grandfathered T-Mobile Internet?

  1. #61
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    I couldn't get it to work for long on the $5.99 line. It worked for a moment, but then I started getting data plan errors.

    Currious about anyone using the plan with the $19.99 VPN plan over internet3

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antenna
    I couldn't get it to work for long on the $5.99 line. It worked for a moment, but then I started getting data plan errors.

    Currious about anyone using the plan with the $19.99 VPN plan over internet3

    Thanks for the heads up. don't feel like paying 500+ for an unlocked phone and then be forced to pay for the android only data plan.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackriders
    Thanks for the heads up. don't feel like paying 500+ for an unlocked phone and then be forced to pay for the android only data plan.
    For anyone else keeping track... I'm seeing a bunch of positive reports of the Nexus One working with the T-MobileWeb (formerly T-Zones) $5.99 unlimited web plan, and only one person so far (earlier in this thread) saying that it didn't work.

    Positive reports:

    1. http://www.howardforums.com/showpost...6&postcount=57 (this thread)
    2. http://androidforums.com/nexus-one/3...pressions.html (2 positive reports)
    3. http://www.google.com/support/forum/...9e3c0d1d&hl=en
    4. http://forum.xda-developers.com/show...9&postcount=34
    5. http://forums.tmonews.com/index.php?topic=12385.9990


    Negative reports:

    1. http://www.howardforums.com/showpost...6&postcount=61 (this thread)


    I haven't decided yet whether the evidence is strong enough to make a major purchase around it, but so far there's reason to be optimistic.

  4. #64
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    lets give it time and see what happens....
    Let's all get a long.
    -= HOFO Feedback =-

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    5.99 is still working for me today.

    I'm quite sure it will stop working if T-mobile ever starts carrying the phone. They do IMEI scanning and this is how they stop the data use.

    A few possibilities:
    1) They don't have the unlocked N1 IMEIs, can't identify phone, never will
    2) They don't have any IMEIs yet, but will in the future, and will lock out old data plans
    3) They have the IMEIs but aren't doing anything with the info

    I'm of the opinion that they do not have the IMEIs yet. On my.tmobile.com, my phone has now changed from my old phone to "image not available". So they know that I have changed phones, but they haven't identified it.

    I tend to believe that the current situation is just like the Google Ion: when and if T-mo starts carrying the phone in stores, they will lock ALL models of the phone out of old data plans, just like they did with the Ion/MT3G.

    But there are also reports of people using old data plans with CLIQ & Behold2. So who knows.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsh
    5.99 is still working for me today.

    I'm quite sure it will stop working if T-mobile ever starts carrying the phone. They do IMEI scanning and this is how they stop the data use.

    A few possibilities:
    1) They don't have the unlocked N1 IMEIs, can't identify phone, never will
    2) They don't have any IMEIs yet, but will in the future, and will lock out old data plans
    3) They have the IMEIs but aren't doing anything with the info

    I'm of the opinion that they do not have the IMEIs yet. On my.tmobile.com, my phone has now changed from my old phone to "image not available". So they know that I have changed phones, but they haven't identified it.

    I tend to believe that the current situation is just like the Google Ion: when and if T-mo starts carrying the phone in stores, they will lock ALL models of the phone out of old data plans, just like they did with the Ion/MT3G.

    But there are also reports of people using old data plans with CLIQ & Behold2. So who knows.
    They identified my unlocked e71, and N900.... both are NOT branded but they still know...

    Using the Touch pro 2/dash 3g, its t-mobile branded, they know but still don't do anything.

    I think it might be more beneficial if they let some of those slide as at least they at still with the company and are buying the phones outright.

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antenna
    Nexus One will not work with:

    $2.99/$4.99/$5.99/$9.99/$19.99 T-Zones, iStream, Web2Go, Sidekick, Blackberry, Total Internet/VPN plans

    You must add EM/EM+ 3 in 1 or $24.99/$34.99 Android Data plan
    Wrong. I'm using $5.99 T-Zones on my unlocked Nexus One. I understand the Nexus One's that you buy at a discount do not allow for anything but the Android plans due to the IMEI's being in the database.

  8. #68
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    By the way guys. The T-Zones on unlocked Google Nexus Ones may stop working at anytime T-Mobile decides to update their IMEI database. It might be a good idea to lock in the $24.99 android data plan just in case.

  9. #69
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    Mine worked on the $5.99 plan for a few hours then it stopped.

    How is it working for $9.99 users using internet2?

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by bradsh
    5.99 is still working for me today.

    I'm quite sure it will stop working if T-mobile ever starts carrying the phone. They do IMEI scanning and this is how they stop the data use.

    A few possibilities:
    1) They don't have the unlocked N1 IMEIs, can't identify phone, never will
    2) They don't have any IMEIs yet, but will in the future, and will lock out old data plans
    3) They have the IMEIs but aren't doing anything with the info

    I'm of the opinion that they do not have the IMEIs yet. On my.tmobile.com, my phone has now changed from my old phone to "image not available". So they know that I have changed phones, but they haven't identified it.

    I tend to believe that the current situation is just like the Google Ion: when and if T-mo starts carrying the phone in stores, they will lock ALL models of the phone out of old data plans, just like they did with the Ion/MT3G.

    But there are also reports of people using old data plans with CLIQ & Behold2. So who knows.

    I tend to believe they'll block sooner rather then later.

    I'll stick with my unlocked pharos, and see how it goes with the nokia n900.

  11. #71
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    Frankly I think it is disgusting that they should even do such a thing as to artificially segment what voice/data plans work with what handset models. I daresay it even sounds like it might be illegal anti-competitive 'tying':
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tying_%28commerce%29

    Certainly it voilates the 'spirit' and intent of GSM where the entire POINT is that you have COMPATIBLE standards for handsets and carrier voice/data services so that if you have an unlocked GSM handset you can use it on ANY carrier's service provided an compatible set of frequencies between the handset and carrier. The great benefit of GSM to the consumer is that you can buy phone carrier service independently of buying your handset, and you can take the same handset around the world, between different carriers / plans, and it should "just work". If the need arises to switch handsets due to preference or loss or whatever it should be no more difficult than to put your SIM into the new handset and everything that worked on another handset model should
    "just work" on the new one.

    Tmobile is artificially breaking the GSM handset interoperability by making their service plans functionality depend on specific handset makes/models for no reason of technical compatibility, but as an attempt to monopolize the handset market among customers of TM's voice/data services, or at least to price gouge and tie inflated cost services to handset models that aren't sold branded by Tmobile.

    It was bad enough with devices like Blackberry, Sidekick where you were effectively forced into unique service plans if you wanted to even temporarily use such devices, and they made the process of that difficult and inconvenient or impossible if you had handsets of multiple GSM types/models/vendors and wanted to say switch between a NOKIA and a Blackberry without having to migrate to an entirely different plan. But at least in those cases there was some SLIGHT difference in network server / configuration functionality 'needed' to be accounted for when using devices like BB, SK due to their design.

    In the case of something like iPhone, N900, N1, Android, Windows Mobile, ... etc. there are NO significant GSM / EDGE standards level incompatibilities between the 'smart phones' and the simplest and dumbest GSM phone models. The distinctions are quite transparent to the carrier's provisioning and service offerings.

    If you want to make a call using X minutes, it shouldn't matter at all to TM what your handset model is.
    If you want to make use of web data over EDGE or even 3G, again, it shouldn't matter at all to TM what your handset model is. If you're buying a voice / data plan that is GSM, it should work with any functionally compatible GSM device with no cost distinction between devices or whether they're TM branded devices or 3rd party unlocked devices.

    Lots of people here have had data plans for years that have always worked fine on TMobile regardless of what handsets they used to access those data plans. It is frankly a bit outrageous that for no better reason than price gouging via anti-competitive tying of plan to handset model/branding that they 'suddenly' declare 'incompatibilities' to exist between generic data plans and generic GSM handset models such that what worked fine last month or last year now may not 'be compatible' coincidentally 'requiring' them to charge you more for a 'compatible' plan. That's just tying / price gouging / extortion with no actual technical justification.

    And given the way they make it so you are locked into the newest most expensive data plan, you can't, say, borrow a N1 or N900 or TP2 or whatever, use it with some existing data plan on your line like 5.99 TZ or 10.00 TMI or whatever to evaluate the device/service, because they'll force you into a "one way" "upgrade" (really forced upSELL) of the data plan. If you decide you don't like the new "see the egress" data plan
    or handset, too bad, you CAN'T generally switch BACK to using the one that you've had for years like 5.99 TZ or 10.00 TMI or whatever since in many cases they will remove that option after you've switched (or been manipulated) to try any other choice.

    It has been said that the policy behind TM's data service offering has changed to be that any TM branded handset except the android ones is going to allow for lower cost data plans, whereas ANY non-TM branded handset regardless of its capabilities is something that they'll only officially support under the most expensive possible e.g. 25/mo data plan, regardless of the 3rd party branded/sold device's actual capabilities (GSM, EDGE, 3G, dumb, smart, ...). Although they are seemingly inconsistent in the implementation of this so far, the truly disturbing thing is how this kind of policy will restrict the level playing field for non TM branded 3rd party sold unlocked GSM phones of ANY kind, especially the 'dumb phones' which will / sometimes are forced to an unequitably high cost data plan relative to TM branded handsets with the same technical capabilities.

    Now if they wanted to do something fair like just say that your data plan has a XX GBy/month cap, with no discrimination between handset models used, that would be fair at least. Similarly if they wanted to do something like say that they have an EDGE/GSM data plan at 10/mo cost capped at Class 10 EDGE speeds, whereas they have a 3G
    oriented unlimited bandwidth data plan at 25/mo, all regardless of handset used to access the services, that would also be fair.

    As it is to a degree now, and as it seems like it is becoming, users of non TM branded handsets, or users of handsets running Android are increasingly looking like they're becoming 2nd class customers who will be paying higher rates for the same technical service levels that people with TM or non Android handsets will be able to enjoy.

    That just confuses customers, limits handset competition / innovation, limits the 3rd party unlocked/unbranded handset market, and artificially limits consumer flexibility/choice with respect to services.

    I'd like to see more people complain about these consumer unfriendly and possibly illegal or at least anti-competitive practices. If I wanted to have to ask permission as to what handset I'd use with my plan or be restricted via policy or unfair pricing to use only carrier branded/locked handsets for a given service, I'd be looking at SPRINT. Tmobile and ATT and other GSM carriers should be the antithesis to that and offer compatibility and "just swap the SIM and it'll work" interoperability by default for all their service offerings.

    If they want to make more money, they should change their rates, but do it fairly for all handset models and vendors and customers.


    Quote Originally Posted by blackriders
    I tend to believe they'll block sooner rather then later.

    I'll stick with my unlocked pharos, and see how it goes with the nokia n900.

  12. #72
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    agbell---

    T-Mobile is not breaking any GSM interoperability. All of the handsets with their frequencies and proper FCC approval will work on their system.

    And every single phone with data capability works when you get a Talk+Text+Web plan with an Even More or Even More Plus service. It's good on all smartphones, blackberry, Android, Win Mo, unlocked, even dumbphones. For you to claim that they don't have one plan which works for every device is a falsehood.

    I think it's nice that in addition to that, T-Mobile offers a lower priced plan for people with dumbphones. T-Mobile knows that dumbphones factually use less data than smartphones.

    I also think its nice that T-Mobile allows people to keep older less expensive plans and still continue to use them. Contractually, T-Mobile is not obliged to do this.

    It sounds like you're advocating that they charge everyone $25-$30 for data. That would mean no dumbphone plans and no old grandfathered plans.

    I don't know why you'd want to price gouge dumbphone users like that. I'm glad that it appears that T-Mobile doesn't agree with your views.

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    agbell,

    Wikipedia is misleading tying. The example it uses, Gillette razor + blades, is not an anti-competitive behavior and hence it's legal.

    For TMO tying to be illegal, it has to be anti-competitive. In plain English, the bundling of data with voice must have the intention of killing another product. What is the other product that TMO is trying to kill here? If you can answer that, you can argue that TMO is illegal. Otherwise, you can't say it's anti-competitive.

  14. #74
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    There are lots of ways they're anti competitive and anti consumer.

    For a start, how about:
    A: Trying to "kill" or at least "discourage" use of TM voice and data services with non TM branded/sold handsets. Depending on the handset model and manufacturer and vendor you have it is not uncommon to be denied the ability to buy or use certain TM services even if you want to buy them and have technical compatibility to use them to your satisfaction. One could look at things like UMA, MyFaves, or the most common data plans as examples here.

    B: Trying to discourage 3rd party non-handset devices to be used with TM voice/data services, things like GSM/GRPS/EDGE/UMTS based netbooks/laptops/modems/data cards. Technically they all are approved by FCC for GSM use on the US cellular system and are fully capable of making either voice calls or using packet / internet data. These devices are denied access to compatible voice or data services categorically in many reported cases, especially if they're not TM branded/sold. Even the TM branded devices if you buy them unsubsidized / used / whatever you can't as I understand it often use them with any old TM voice/data plan if you had a temporary need/desire to do so.

    C: Trying to discourage the use and availability of smartphones, and/or android phones but also things like Windows Mobile, Palm, iPhone. Especially trying to discourage the use of them on TM services. Especially trying to discourage them if they aren't sold by TM at a price premium profitable to TM. Especially trying to discourage them if they aren't used in conjunction with an ultra premium priced data plan.

    D: Trying to discourage the ability of internet service or software product vendors from having access to TM's customers by doing things like crippling TM branded handsets firmware/software/JAVA/browsers to be artificially incapable of using services or software that TM doesn't profit from the use of and control the use of. Notice the lack of ability to use POP, IMAP, 3rd party IM clients, 3rd party text messaging utilities, 3rd party JAVA games / utilities / browsers / GIS utilities on many TM branded handsets. Notice the level of blocking of internet connections based on IP port or URL or packet size or other aspects that would tend to minimize the ability of TM's customers from using software or services effectively or at all other than the few that TM doesn't interfere with.

    Why is the price I pay for a data service affected by the price I pay for a voice service; they're supposedly two different things?

    Why is the price I pay for a data service affected by which FCC approved technically compatible GSM device I use to access it?

    Why do the handsets sold by TM often have LESS capabilities technically than the EXACT SAME handsets that that vendor sells through, say, AT&T/Cingular USA, or sells directly unlocked, or sells through TM Europe or elsewhere? One RAZR should have all the capabilities of another RAZR, but they do not, because TM is trying to reduce either competition for software/services or reduce customers ability to use the services they're paying fixed costs for by inhibiting access to them.

    If I had an ISP internet connection, I would expect it to work and cost the same no matter if I had a PC running Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, a Macintosh, a laptop, a netbook, a PC running LINUX, or if I just wanted to hook up a PS3 / XBOX to the internet. To charge me one price for internet access for a PC running windows and double the cost for the same internet access if I had a Macintosh for no technical reason other than to discourage people using Macs since the ISP doesn't get a cut of Mac profits, but might get a cut of PC profits is basically the same thing going on with Tmobile and data plans that penalize iPhone or Nexus 1 or Palm Pre or whatever rather than if users used a TM branded RAZR. They either want to artificially force higher revenues from handset sales, data plan sales, both, or restrict you to using handsets that don't let you get value for the money you're spending on your voice/data plan. In any case they win, consumers lose, and competition loses.




    Quote Originally Posted by acegolfer
    agbell,

    Wikipedia is misleading tying. The example it uses, Gillette razor + blades, is not an anti-competitive behavior and hence it's legal.

    For TMO tying to be illegal, it has to be anti-competitive. In plain English, the bundling of data with voice must have the intention of killing another product. What is the other product that TMO is trying to kill here? If you can answer that, you can argue that TMO is illegal. Otherwise, you can't say it's anti-competitive.

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    Scott, if you followed the link in your locked topic. It doesn't matter if you have the tzones plan or android/smartphone plan, you won't be charged additional data charges unless you roam out of country. Unlike residential ISPs who charge extra for faster data speeds, tmo does not.

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