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Thread: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    IF the tower is overloaded and someone has to suffer then choosing to allow customers who do not work their way into the top 5% of users to have a normal connection while throttling customers who have received more than their "fare share" of data is managing the network.

    I doubt if throttling will get down to the 220kbps level ... but if the bandwidth is used someone has to suffer. Verizon Wireless has clearly stated who that someone will be.
    ATT throttles LTE at 500 kbps and still offers LTE pings.

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam73065 View Post
    I'm left speechless(well not really) by the Obama remark. I can't imagine how politics fits into this particular argument.

    Isn't it a little bit sad when you're maybe the only one that got the joke? ...
    And rightly the only one that didn't. Left 'alone again'.
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnhere View Post
    I think it's just a matter of time before vz ditches all unlimited plans. I could be wrong and hopefully I am but I see them getting rid of all of them the next few years with various tactics.
    Follow the money, they'll kill unlimited if its beneficial for them to do it. They'll weigh customer retention and Vzw's reputation along w/the purely financial aspects. Does anyone know how many unlimited customers are left? How much data they consume compared to what they pay? How fast are customers giving up their unlimited data in exchange for the new plans and/or subsidized upgrades? Vzw may not find it necessary to do away w/unlimited users.
    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    I think Sam closes by alluding to a critical point. Vzw – not its customers – is responsible for knowing what traffic The Network will bear. If there's an excess of traffic it's because vzw greedily oversold its network capacity. It's not because UL data plan users are using more than their infinite contractual data allotment. And if the situation needs a remedy then vzw will just have to stop selling so much data and build some more towers to cover its commitment to all of its customers.

    To turn this overselling by vzw back onto a segment of vzw customers and make like it's UL vs. metered reduces to the oldest ploy power has going against numbers – divide and conquer.
    I honestly don't think Vzw has oversold it's network capacity overall. I think the truth is closer to the bottom line. Data usage is growing so start selling the data now after having hooked the consumers. At least Vzw has maintained and grown their network in comparison to ATTM. ATTM had a wonderful bottom line and piss poor performance. If Vzw had matched ATTM's prices or even been slightly lower, I wonder if ATTM could have survived not having taken care of their network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sam73065 View Post
    Follow the money, they'll kill unlimited if its beneficial for them to do it. They'll weigh customer retention and Vzw's reputation along w/the purely financial aspects. Does anyone know how many unlimited customers are left? How much data they consume compared to what they pay? How fast are customers giving up their unlimited data in exchange for the new plans and/or subsidized upgrades? Vzw may not find it necessary to do away w/unlimited users.
    The first step is voluntary ... wait for customers to upgrade to "deals they cannot refuse" - and in the process have them give up their unlimited plans. This would include offering special deals ... such as the 4GB for the 2GB price deals. As time goes on the deals may get "sweeter" (although is there anything less sweet than "unlimited"?).

    If it makes financial sense to push people off of unlimited plans they will do it. Verizon is not obligated to continue to offer unlimited data plans.

    I honestly don't think Vzw has oversold it's network capacity overall.
    That depends on where one is. There are areas of the country where VZW has more bandwidth than other areas. There are areas of the country where VZW has more customers than other areas. Hopefully they have plenty of bandwidth in the areas with the most customers.

    Verizon has not stopped selling their service ... so theoretically it could be "oversold" in the heavily populated bandwidth limited markets. But all that means is that VZW will have to use its bandwidth to it's fullest. Reducing 1X and 3G coverage for 4G (if that is where the customers demand lies).

    VZW is run by smart people ... they'll do what is best for their company.
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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    Network optimization vs saving the network. There is little or no difference when it comes to engineering. You need more towers to manage spectum im a given area. If you dont have the funds or ability to grow in a given area, then your network is taxed. Frequency reuse in a given area limits what you are able to achieve. You can only work with the spectrum and towers you are given. Those who use alot of bandwidth at a certain location, make protecting the bandwidth mandatory. Without the allotted towers it becomes a management issue. Engineers can only work with what they are given to protect a network. You can only manage what you have. Just a few data whores can throw everything into chaos in a given area.

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sam73065 View Post
    Follow the money, they'll kill unlimited if its beneficial for them to do it. They'll weigh customer retention and Vzw's reputation along w/the purely financial aspects. Does anyone know how many unlimited customers are left? How much data they consume compared to what they pay? How fast are customers giving up their unlimited data in exchange for the new plans and/or subsidized upgrades? Vzw may not find it necessary to do away w/unlimited users.

    I honestly don't think Vzw has oversold it's network capacity overall. I think the truth is closer to the bottom line. Data usage is growing so start selling the data now after having hooked the consumers. …
    I agree. Note that I qualified the "oversold" reference. I, too, feel the press to quell UL is purely profit-driven and The Network, atm, can support unlimited, even on LTE. But the lady in red always wants more. And, while UL accounts may be faithful to the terms of their contracts, they're not as profitable as the newer data plans vzw has created for the purpose of raking in more. So, it's like, 'What have you done for me – lately?'

    I also agree intangibles, like image and reputation will matter. Justa (quoted below) describes well the process, but I believe it will stay voluntary. Yes, she's a savvy belle, and she will entice and finagle UL down to a manageable number – and then let natural attrition take care of the rest.

    I suspect the real bottleneck will have more to do with infrastructure than spectrum. As the inevitable oversell proceeds and congestion develops, towers and backhaul can *greatly* extend spectrum capacity as 3gGuy (quoted below) so clearly points out. But that's expensive. Throttling will be easier and much cheaper. Just like it's easier and much cheaper to let a few folks sleep in the terminal than to roll out a whole new plane.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    The first step is voluntary ... wait for customers to upgrade to "deals they cannot refuse" - and in the process have them give up their unlimited plans. This would include offering special deals ... such as the 4GB for the 2GB price deals. As time goes on the deals may get "sweeter" (although is there anything less sweet than "unlimited"?).

    If it makes financial sense to push people off of unlimited plans they will do it. Verizon is not obligated to continue to offer unlimited data plans.

    That depends on where one is. There are areas of the country where VZW has more bandwidth than other areas. There are areas of the country where VZW has more customers than other areas. Hopefully they have plenty of bandwidth in the areas with the most customers.

    Verizon has not stopped selling their service ... so theoretically it could be "oversold" in the heavily populated bandwidth limited markets. But all that means is that VZW will have to use its bandwidth to it's fullest. Reducing 1X and 3G coverage for 4G (if that is where the customers demand lies).

    VZW is run by smart people ... they'll do what is best for their company.
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by 3G Guy View Post
    Network optimization vs saving the network. There is little or no difference when it comes to engineering. You need more towers to manage spectum im a given area. If you dont have the funds or ability to grow in a given area, then your network is taxed. Frequency reuse in a given area limits what you are able to achieve. You can only work with the spectrum and towers you are given. Those who use alot of bandwidth at a certain location, make protecting the bandwidth mandatory. Without the allotted towers it becomes a management issue. Engineers can only work with what they are given to protect a network. You can only manage what you have. Just a few data whores can throw everything into chaos in a given area.

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    Last edited by TC_Mits; 12-09-2012 at 09:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    The first step is voluntary ... wait for customers to upgrade to "deals they cannot refuse" - and in the process have them give up their unlimited plans. This would include offering special deals ... such as the 4GB for the 2GB price deals. As time goes on the deals may get "sweeter" (although is there anything less sweet than "unlimited"?).

    If it makes financial sense to push people off of unlimited plans they will do it. Verizon is not obligated to continue to offer unlimited data plans.


    That depends on where one is. There are areas of the country where VZW has more bandwidth than other areas. There are areas of the country where VZW has more customers than other areas. Hopefully they have plenty of bandwidth in the areas with the most customers.

    Verizon has not stopped selling their service ... so theoretically it could be "oversold" in the heavily populated bandwidth limited markets. But all that means is that VZW will have to use its bandwidth to it's fullest. Reducing 1X and 3G coverage for 4G (if that is where the customers demand lies).

    VZW is run by smart people ... they'll do what is best for their company.
    I have never questioned Vzw's obligation to provide unlimited data. The only obligation which I expect them to fulfill is to honor my contract through 2013 and to hopefully give me fair notice of any changes which may affect me. Notice that I qualified my statement that Vzw "overall" has not oversold their network. I am sure there are individual markets, maybe entire regions where certain times of the day network congestion is a fair and reasonable description. Yet overall Vzw has increased capacity to go along w/growth in comparison to ATTM, which sat around w/the thumb of one hand up its butt and the other hand full of cash. I won't comment on how smart those running VZW are, but I agree that their primary interest is in the welfare of the company, the customer be damned.

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    … and sent back to sleep in the terminal.

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    As I said with the current technology I believe those with unlimited are OK.

    It will be when you need a new device for future technology that unlimited won't be available.

    I've been out of contract for a while and never got the impression that VZW would knock me off unlimited.

    It would be a drastic move to send out notices and bad PR.

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years

    Don't need voLTE. Don't really need *metered* LTE-Adv.

    As long as my LTE holds a consistent 3-5mbs down for video streaming, I'll be very happy with my new quad-core 6" 1080p Moto GNOTE III knockoff phablet for a very long time …

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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Don't need voLTE. Don't really need *metered* LTE-Adv.

    As long as my LTE holds a consistent 3-5mbs down for video streaming, I'll be very happy with my new quad-core 6" 1080p Moto GNOTE III knockoff phablet for a very long time …
    Will you be able to stay on LTE or will you be forced to VoLTE?

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    I think it *highly* unlikely that vzw will "force" anyone to purchase new equipment. Certainly, that's more than two years away – worst case scenario. Probably closer to five years before CDMA voice disappears altogether.

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    Re: can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?

    A) VoLTE is like an additional capability for LTE, you won't have to get a VoLTE device just because VoLTE becomes available.
    B) VZW has said 1x will be around until *at least* 2020. If 1x goes, everyone will need new devices (unless there's any current VoLTE supporting phones, i guess they wouldn't.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    A) VoLTE is like an additional capability for LTE, you won't have to get a VoLTE device just because VoLTE becomes available.
    B) VZW has said 1x will be around until *at least* 2020. If 1x goes, everyone will need new devices (unless there's any current VoLTE supporting phones, i guess they wouldn't.)

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    Then my prediction is when 1x goes away so will those with unlimited because you'll need a new device.

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    You can either hold onto your 3G device and try to hang onto the unlimited data plan or when you upgrade to a 4G device, you will indeed be required to go to a 4G throttled plan. I had a 3G unlimited broadband plan and finally broke down and got a new 4G MiFi with a throttled plan. It is much faster, but I"m more conservative with my usage.

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