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Thread: The future of Unlimited Data

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    Re: The future of Unlimited Data

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    I have no problem with anyone abridging my posts. I do it often. In this case, though, the excerpt above might have been more to the point.

    .

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    Thats funny

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    Re: The future of Unlimited Data

    Verizon is expected to make a certain amount of "overage" revenue. That has dried up on the voice and text side. The only logical option for them is to go unlimited on the voice and texts, and limit the data. That not only pays for network expansion where needed, but provides extra revenue. They never would have been able to afford the LTE expansion without increased revenue from the texting and voice overages of the past. That is part of the reason Sprint and T-Mobile do not have the $ to expand the way Verizon did. At&t on the other hand just made bad licencing decisions to limit where they could expand their network.

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    The future of Unlimited Data

    Quote Originally Posted by coorey View Post
    In the grand scheme of things your account worth $145 per month is at the bottom of their keep happy list, att has contracts with corporations that are 10-20x this amount...
    We know that, I was speaking from a CONSUMER standpoint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottwi View Post
    The problem I find with your statement is that we are being encouraged through Verizon advertisements, Verizon media, local Verizon stores and etc to use our smartphones for what they are... As mobile app running, media viewing non-dumb phone devices. I have heard representatives say that a smart phone can run many applications at once, allow people to flip between different applications. Some of the key points shown is the ability to use the mobile web for video, chatting, music and more...
    There's wifi, and there's marketing departments at all the carriers that are out of touch with the reality of the networks.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottwi View Post
    But I have never once heard a single representative even imply "After 2GB of data use you need to stop using 80% of your phone's capabilities and limit yourself to basic functions because you used too much." Nor have I heard a representative even suggest "there is a right place to watch videos, and the Verizon network isn't it" (The thought of a representative or someone even saying this now a days does seem a little retrogressive in terms of technology, but I guess to each there own)

    Fact is there is no "suggestion" that we take something out and limit ourselves to "2GB" of data, in fact there is no suggestion what so ever that we "limit" ourselves at all. It would seem that Verizon's suggesting a usage pattern that is inconsistent with what you suggest....


    To show what I am saying here is an advertisement I have seen quite a bit recently on the Xbox 360 for the Droid Razr HD

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRbWc2dDv3M

    In there they show Pulse twice, GameNow (http://www.onlivespot.net/2012/11/ub...ud-gaming.html) once and then in the closing few seconds of the advertisement they comment on the following features

    *Simultaneous Voice and Data
    *Cloud Gaming
    *All Day Power

    But the entire time of them showing what the phone can do through data/cloud app use they do not once suggest/imply being frugal with data usage.


    The thing I see is that the future of mobile web is becoming more and more about using it rather then not. Windows 8 phones with there live tiles, android applications that pull real time information from the web (weather alerts, calendar details, pushmail, push notifications and etc)... The phones have the capability to do so much and the number of people I see with dumb phones is becoming less and less where I live.

    Times are changing, technology is moving forward and people are evolving as well...
    They also have wifi.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottwi View Post
    Where do you get this information from?
    Experience. With EDGE on AT&T. There's basically no properly functioning EDGE left on AT&T, most of what's left is garbage, and anywhere that's anywhere has some sort of "4G" but when they had good EDGE, I had no problem with 100% of the functionality on my Android phone, or tethering for basic web use on a laptop, including streaming radio, which is the most intensive use of bandwidth for a smartphone.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottwi View Post
    People who pay for 4G service are not going to see it the same way as you do. These people are paying for speeds faster then 3G, Edge, DSL and they are going to most certainly have an issue if they start getting speeds at 150kpbs.

    Even I personally would have a problem if that were to start happening.... 150kpbs is slightly faster then dialup internet at 40kpbs!
    I'm saying that if people use too much, they should be limited. So normal users would never get limited. And the abusive ones would at least have an incentive to be reasonable. Some would and some wouldn't. Those who don't will be forced into not being abusive by the throttling itself, since you can only suck so much through a tiny straw.

    The difference between 40kbps and 150kbps is night and day. 40kbps is basically useless, 150kbps is slow, but fully usable on a smartphone.

    Quote Originally Posted by scottwi View Post
    Because of there advertisements, implied usage, sales reps and the new phones they are coming out with I agree with this 100%.

    They just need make it fair and not arbitrarily limited...
    Right... hit throttle points. That way, users have incentives, usage is kept in check, but at the same time, there are no limits on anyone's use, and no one gets any billing surprises. I would go further to say that once they hit the throttle point, they should be sent a text with an option to buy another gig for $10 at full speed, and that ability limited through MyWireless so that kids can have that option taken away or w/e.

    The problem with saying that throttling should only occur to users over 2GB when they are on an overloaded tower is that they then have no incentive to keep their usage in check in the first place, while they may be on heavily used towers. If they knew they would be throttled at 2GB for EVDO or 4GB for LTE, then they would have an incentive to modify their behavior so that they didn't go past the throttle point on a repeatable, predictable basis.

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    Re: The future of Unlimited Data

    Since GSM lives in the past …
    Who remembers 'Unlimited Nights and Weekends'? That's the correct operative principle. Throttling is ineffective and fundamentally punitive.

    No data "throttle point" is needed. The point is that throttling high usage and capping data plans doesn't address tower congestion in any effective way.

    The Verge link in post #306:
    " … data caps are the equivalent of limiting the amount of miles people drive in a month; 'it would make little sense to try and limit the total miles residents drive in a month as a means to solve rush hour congestion,' the report says. 'Such monthly mile limits would needlessly impact residents who drive when the road is empty late at night and do not contribute to traffic congestion.' …"

    Vzw has the beginning of the right idea by only throttling [in theory, at least] where and when congestion is actually a problem. It needs to go the rest of the way and remove all data caps completely and then throttle only at the level of tower traffic, never by individual account. Really, throttling isn't a proper response to congestion, anyway, backhaul is. Vzw needs to stop scapegoating its loyal UL data customers (with contracts that vzw wrote) and build the necessary towers, add the microsites, and beef up the equipment in high traffic existing towers to support the fair and legal agreements it has made with all its subscribers.

    Unlimited data is NOT a thing of the past. It is the way of the future.

    Unless … the lady in red has her way in Babylon and pockets it like she pocketed WiFi:
    http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keat...i-hotspots.asp
    [320]
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 12-29-2012 at 01:59 AM.
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    Re: The future of Unlimited Data

    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    Or perhaps the common man has found a way to post via separate devices at the same time.
    Yes, we just don't know, do we. . . .
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 12-28-2012 at 07:09 AM.

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    For those few that think they would bring unlimited data back at some point under a higher price point, get real.

    Look at what they charge for 20GB's of data. There are those that pay that price to have it. (I know I signed one up today on it.) That's well over $100 a month and upwards if they pay overages. So what would Verizons motivation be to bring back Unlimited Data at any point with people willing to pay for 20GB+ of data a month. There is no motivation. Especially not financially.

    In an unrealistic fantasy Verizon brings it back at some point. But in reality it's as dead as the dinosaurs. They would rather offer double data on some plans than Unlimited Data, especially from a financial standpoint.

    So for those holding out hope it'll be back....yeah. Time to let go of that fantasy.

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    The future of Unlimited Data

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post

    Vzw has the beginning of the right idea by only throttling [in theory, at least] where and when congestion is actually a problem. It needs to go the rest of the way and remove all data caps completely and then throttle only at the level of tower traffic, never by individual account. Really, throttling isn't a proper response to congestion, anyway, backhaul is.
    Network managing the tower is a lot better than addressing and individual account. However according to Verizon they can what they call network optimize 4G like they do 3G which is very similar to throttling on an individual basis.

    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits
    Vzw needs to stop scapegoating its loyal UL data customers (with contracts that vzw wrote) and build the necessary towers, add the microsites, and beef up the equipment in high traffic existing towers to support the fair and legal agreements it has made with all its subscribers.
    How is VZW scapegoating UL accounts with their policy of buying full retail/bringing in your own used device?

    AT&T has a throttling policy, let's you upgrade at device subsidy and still keep UL.

    Basically both VZW and AT&T are doing the same thing per se with UL accounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Vzw has the beginning of the right idea by only throttling [in theory, at least] where and when congestion is actually a problem. It needs to go the rest of the way and remove all data caps completely and then throttle only at the level of tower traffic, never by individual account. Really, throttling isn't a proper response to congestion, anyway, backhaul is.
    Upgrading the network (both tower bandwidth and backhaul) is expensive and takes time. While waiting for the upgrades VZW needs to do something NOW, while the data is being used. They cannot wait for a utopia where they have tons of excess infrastructure built in the hope that someone will use it.

    Data is not capped ... VZW has set a threshhold where people over that level of usage are subject to speed restrictions (as needed) and people under that threshhold are not subject to the same restrictions but there is no cap. Customers can continue to use as much data as they wish (at a cost set by their contract).
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    Re: The future of Unlimited Data

    Wow! Good thing I'm not a dentist, huh?


    But, then again . . .

    maybe we do know, after all.




    EDIT: ♪… And the beat goes on
    Last edited by TC_Mits; 12-28-2012 at 07:34 AM.

  11. #326
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    The future of Unlimited Data

    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    Upgrading the network (both tower bandwidth and backhaul) is expensive and takes time. While waiting for the upgrades VZW needs to do something NOW, while the data is being used. They cannot wait for a utopia where they have tons of excess infrastructure built in the hope that someone will use it.

    Data is not capped ... VZW has set a threshhold where people over that level of usage are subject to speed restrictions (as needed) and people under that threshhold are not subject to the same restrictions but there is no cap. Customers can continue to use as much data as they wish (at a cost set by their contract).
    VZW has set speed restrictions for 3G and says 4G can me subject to speed restrictions but 4G isn't affected at this time. So when they start to do this with 4G(maybe they have?) then there will be no cap per se because you'll still be able to use as much data as you wish with no overages.

    VZW policy is very contradicting. They say that 4G 'restriction' can be implemented the same as 3G, that 4G isn't affected at this time. However they also explain network optimization which is contradictory. I'm thinking that network optimization might be a fancy word for throttling. Actually the 4G restriction would be the same as a 3G restriction when VZW starts to implement on 4G. You're affected for the remaining of the billing cycle AND the next billing cycle. VZW doesn't tell you what speeds you'll be brought down too in regards to 4G.

    "Once my data speed is reduced, am I going to be under Network Optimization forever?
    No. You will be subject to Network Optimization for that billing cycle and the following cycle. When subject to Network Optimization you will only be affected when connected to a congested cell site. Otherwise, your data will operate as normal. "

    See the contradiction? First they say it affects the top 5% at 2GB and then they say you're only affected when connected to a congested cell site. What is it? When you reach the top 5% or only when you're connected to a congested cell site?

    All we know is when VZW starts to network optimize 4G it's going to be the same as how they optimize 3G.

    "We reserve the right to include 4G LTE users later, but right now this only applies to the top 5% of users with unlimited data plans using 3G devices. If you have a 4G LTE device you will not be affected at this time."

    Edit: VZW states when you're in the top 5% you're only affected when connected to congested cell sites. So I'm in Philly and most likely the cell sites will be congested as well as NYC and other large Metro's.

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    So, this discussion begs the question "can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?"

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    The future of Unlimited Data

    Quote Originally Posted by bmtvaquero View Post
    So, this discussion begs the question "can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?"
    It's obvious that VZW can stop unlimited plans. What I posted was about VZW network optimization which isn't related to whether or not VZW can legally stop UL plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmtvaquero View Post
    So, this discussion begs the question "can VZW legally stop allowing unlimited plans for EVERYBODY in a couple of years?"
    Yes, they legally can. An no amount of whining, crying, complaining can stop that. When it gets to the point Verizon is dead set on getting rid of it by almost any means necessary....the ride is over. Especially once you are out of contract which is what I believe they are waiting for many Unlimited Data users to be before taking stronger action.

    Verizon is not your friend. It's not a buddy you can count on to always be there for you. It's sole business is making money. When the time arrives that it has the desire to get rid of Unlimited Data users completely, they will toss you to the curb and curb stomp you with no remorse. All your begging for mercy, pleading to keep your Unlimited Data plan, threatening to go elsewhere, etc. will have no effect. Why? Because they know most people will still stay in their arms and giving them money.

    Why? Because let's face it. They can treat you like crap, and most people will stay with them. All because of their network.

    Getting rid of Unlimited Data they can do legally...especially out of contract. And all you can do is bend over and take it or walk. And it's all but certain when VOLTE starts to become the standard...everyone will likely be forced off Unlimited Data. I would be surprised if anyone was still on unlimited data in 5 years. Buying the phone outright is by no means a guarantee you will be able to keep Unlimited Data forever.

    End of story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by whitetigergrowl View Post
    Yes, they legally can. An no amount of whining, crying, complaining can stop that. When it gets to the point Verizon is dead set on getting rid of it by almost any means necessary....the ride is over. Especially once you are out of contract which is what I believe they are waiting for many Unlimited Data users to be before taking stronger action.

    Verizon is not your friend. It's not a buddy you can count on to always be there for you. It's sole business is making money. When the time arrives that it has the desire to get rid of Unlimited Data users completely, they will toss you to the curb and curb stomp you with no remorse. All your begging for mercy, pleading to keep your Unlimited Data plan, threatening to go elsewhere, etc. will have no effect. Why? Because they know most people will still stay in their arms and giving them money.

    Why? Because let's face it. They can treat you like crap, and most people will stay with them. All because of their network.

    Getting rid of Unlimited Data they can do legally...especially out of contract. And all you can do is bend over and take it or walk. And it's all but certain when VOLTE starts to become the standard...everyone will likely be forced off Unlimited Data. I would be surprised if anyone was still on unlimited data in 5 years. Buying the phone outright is by no means a guarantee you will be able to keep Unlimited Data forever.

    End of story.
    I most definitely think VZW will throttle UL accounts similar to AT&T.

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