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Thread: Sprint 2.5/2.6GHz TD-LTE in Denver, CO

  1. #1
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    Sprint 2.5/2.6GHz TD-LTE in Denver, CO

    http://s4gru.com/index.php?/topic/40...-lte/?p=173062

    Locations where we believe TD-LTE is active at due to a leaked internal memo...
    Los Angeles
    San Francisco,
    Denver (confirmed)
    Seattle
    Miami
    New York City
    Tampa
    Chicago
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    Last edited by lilotimz; 07-22-2013 at 05:25 PM.

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    I'm curious when Sprint will be deploying 40MHz TDD-LTE on 2.5GHz ?

    (peak speed seen of 89Mbps below)



    720p

    Last edited by 503ducati; 07-22-2013 at 06:34 PM.

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    Sprint officially first to market with LTE-Advanced?

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    Yep. Should be running 20+20mhz carrier aggregated channels from the get go but as no phone or hotspot device can do that (yet) we can't be certain. Those Samsung TD-LTE RRUs can run 4x 20mhz carriers or 2x 20+20mhz CA channels.

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    I can't wait to see a speed test from Robert at full signal

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    Quote Originally Posted by tybo31316 View Post
    I can't wait to see a speed test from Robert at full signal
    Or how about CA capable device?

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    Quote Originally Posted by tybo31316 View Post
    I can't wait to see a speed test from Robert at full signal
    Here's one at another one at a better but still weak signal. He says that TD-LTE is found throughout everywhere he went so far.
    It appears they're running a 20mhz carrier which has peak speeds of ~90 mbps DL / ~20 mbps UL.
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    According to Robert, it sounds like it's deployed decently thus far.


    Quote Originally Posted by Robert
    I'm getting TD-LTE all over Denver. So far, everywhere I've gone between Centennial and Aurora. It seems better than WiMax because it can hold on to weaker signals and a very weak signal is quite usable.


    Anyone else in Denver, Colorado with one of those new 'Tri-Band' LTE modems?





    Last edited by 503ducati; 07-22-2013 at 06:37 PM.

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    Decent speeds given the fairly weak signals that he's pulling!
    Thrill me...

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    From Robert aka S4GRU

    S4GRU, on 22 Jul 2013 - 10:47 PM, said:
    Here is some points today of my Denver Band 41 TD-LTE testing.

    Netgear TriBand LTE Hotspot is awesome. Love the color touch screen display. Easy to use. And in Network Settings, it will tell you which LTE Band you are using.

    • Around Denver I used Band 41 (2600) in most places, and occasionally Band 25 (1900).
    • Denver TD-LTE 2600 seemed to me to be on every WiMax site I encountered. It just very well may be a full market deployment.
    • I rarely lost LTE 2600 signal, unless I went into a tunnel, under a long overpass, went into a significant depression or behind a hill. On the wide open Denver freeways and boulevards, I kept a steady Band 41 LTE signal with smooth handoffs. Way smoother than WiMax.
    • I bounced around between -130dBm RSRP and -55dBm RSRP all over the Denver Metro area. Zero to six bars. This MiFi will hold on to some very weak signals. I don't know if triband smartphones will be able to do the same. However -120dBm signals were usable most of the time with 2-6Mbps speeds. Even at -130 RSRP I was able to get 1-2Mbps download. I kept the device in LTE Only mode, and it may not do so well in mixed LTE/CDMA mode.
    • I tried to get Band 41 LTE to hand off to Band 25 LTE. Over in East Aurora near DIA, it looked like my best shot. However, there was about a 1/2 mile between where Band 41 ended and Band 25 started. So no luck there.
    • Maximum speed test hit was 40Mbps in all my testing. Maximum upload hit was almost 25Mbps. Lowest ping time was 100ms. But remember that this was from a hotspot, so some ping is lost there. When I could test on Band 25, my hotspot was adding between 75-150ms to pings over what my Note 2 was doing from the same site/sector.
    • It seems in the current Denver deployment, LTE 2600 download speeds seemed limited on Clearwire's existing backhaul that is being shared with WiMax. For instance, I had a WiMax Galaxy S2 that I was using side by side with my TD-LTE hotspot. When I hit 40Mbps DL on TD-LTE, I was hitting 14-16Mbps DL on WiMax (although I cannot guarantee I was on the same site). However, when I would hit 8Mbps DL on TD-LTE with a full signal, I would also only hit about 6-8Mbps DL on WiMax. So with this, I concluded that Clearwire is sharing their LTE and WiMax on the same backhaul. So if the LTE/WiMax 2600 site has more backhaul speed available than the WiMax airlink could support, then the LTE would be much faster than WiMax, up to whatever speed the backhaul was currently running. If the backhaul was burdened to a speed lower than the WiMax airlink, then the LTE and WiMax 2600 were the same speed roughly.
    • Upload speeds. Upload speeds were good to great. I averaged 8-10Mbps upload speeds. Sometimes hitting into the 20's. At sites where speeds were below 7-8Mbps, the upload was averaging higher. WiMax upload was limited to 1.5Mbps, but Clearwire TDD LTE is much higher. This leads me to conclude that these are indeed 20MHz channels. I don't think we would see 20Mbps+ upload speeds on Time Division with only 10MHz channels.
    • My conclusion after 8 hours of testing is that I believe these to be 20MHz TDD channels. With the very high upload speeds, I'm left with no other conclusions. With a full signal, I encountered between 6Mbps - 40Mbps download speeds, and 6Mbps - 25Mbps upload speeds. Even though a 10MHz TDD channel could hit 40Mbps DL speeds in ideal situations, I don't think it could then also deliver 20Mbps+ speeds too on it. A 10MHz TDD channel would likely have around a 10Mbps upload speed, or even possibly less. I think that the 40/20 could be even higher with better backhaul delivered to these sites.
    • Indoor usability on Band 41 stinks. No suprise, though. I would lose between 15-25dBm going indoors. If I had worse than -100dBm outside, I likely wasn't going to get inside reception at all. Since LTE 2600/Band 41 is supposed to be overlaid always with 1900 and 800, this will not be a problem at build out. And I had better reception and speeds than WiMax. But you will not be fond of LTE 2600 indoor usage.
    • Another point about the hotspot, but not Band 41 (TDD-LTE) related, is that it is a RF beast. The Netgear MiFI tends to best my Note 2 on Band 25 LTE signals by 6-10dBm. That's a lot. In Castle Rock, Colorado with a 10dBm difference, my Note 2 would do 11Mbps on its own, but connected to the hotspot it would do 20Mbps. Huge difference in speed with 10dBm. Also, my CDMA RSSI is roughly 4-8dBm better too.



    Robert

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    Sprint launching 2.5GHz TD-LTE nationwide.



    "Now that we own 100 percent of Clearwire, with the help of SoftBank, we said, how do we take full advantage of the 2.5 GHz spectrum?" Euteneuer said. "The best way to do that is to have it fully integrated with the rest of your spectrum capabilities. And to do that you really need to put it on every tower."

    The Sprint CFO said because of the weaker propagation characteristics of 2.5 GHz, Sprint will deploy small cells and other sites beyond the 38,000 Network Vision sites the company has mapped out. He said it is unclear at this point if the nationwide deployment of Clearwire's spectrum will be finished by the end of 2014. Clearwire commands around 160 MHz of spectrum in the top 100 markets.

    Looking ahead though, Elfman said the 2.5 GHz expansion will proceed at a brisk clip. "It will not be fully built up, but it will be quite a bit easier than the current Network Vision plan because we will already have backhaul," Elfman said of the 2.5 GHz expansion, according to a Seeking Alpha transcript. "We will already have done most of the leasing and it will be more of an overlay effect the way you're seeing our competitors do overlay LTE network. So it will move much faster than the current Network Vision plan."



    Read more: Sprint CFO: SoftBank deal lets us take Clearwire spectrum nationwide - FierceWireless http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...#ixzz2aZ5LT9Yk
    Subscribe at FierceWireless

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    Also of note from today,

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Elfman
    We'll have a few handsets in the fourth quarter that are 2.5 capable and that of course will be a low percentage of our overall portfolio. But beginning in 2014, all of our devices that we get will be 2.5 capable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brett Feldman - Deutsche Bank
    Just a one quick follow up. You mentioned all of the devices that you'll be -- in your lineup that you’ll be getting next year will include 2.5. Can you confirm that that includes the iPhone?
    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Elfman
    I'll start with the first question. We can't confirm anything on the iPhone at this time or anytime. So take my comments to all the other devices this point in time and we’ll wait to see what Apple does in the future.

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    This is really excellent. The Clearwire spectrum gives Sprint the opportunity to create a network with a capacity that should be wonderful and it's good to see that they're moving fast on it. It would be nice to see 2.5GHz supporting phones before the fourth quarter. I wouldn't want to be buying a current-generation device that will be limited to 5x5 LTE on SMR/PCS.

    I think the bigger thing from the FierceWireless article (and Sprint's results) is that Sprint intends to spend $8B on its network this year! That's huge and puts them in line with AT&T and Verizon's network spend. More than anything else, this is the key. Sprint tried to have low capex for many years (1.8B in 2008, 1.6B in 2009, 1.9B in 2010, 2.9B in 2011). The best sign for Sprint's future is that they're going to be spending what their competitors are spending on their network.

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    Samsung today announced the world’s first commercial devices capable of TDD-LTE and FDD-LTE seamless handover technology. The Samsung LTE-A phone is powered by a Snapdragon 800, Qualcomm’s fastest chip, which also integrates an LTE modem.

    Samsung is launching TDD/FDD Dual Mode LTE versions of the Samsung GALAXY S4 and Samsung GALAXY S4 mini for seamless voice and data switching between the two different types of LTE networks. Samsung says it is the first player in the global mobile industry to provide dual-mode (TDD-LTE/FDD-LTE) smartphones. The Galaxy S4 LTE-A is expected to be available to customers in Korea this summer.
    http://www.samsung.com/us/aboutsamsu...earch_keyword=

    http://www.dailywireless.org/2013/07...n-151-markets/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Z0EY View Post
    This is really excellent. The Clearwire spectrum gives Sprint the opportunity to create a network with a capacity that should be wonderful and it's good to see that they're moving fast on it. It would be nice to see 2.5GHz supporting phones before the fourth quarter. I wouldn't want to be buying a current-generation device that will be limited to 5x5 LTE on SMR/PCS.

    I think the bigger thing from the FierceWireless article (and Sprint's results) is that Sprint intends to spend $8B on its network this year! That's huge and puts them in line with AT&T and Verizon's network spend. More than anything else, this is the key. Sprint tried to have low capex for many years (1.8B in 2008, 1.6B in 2009, 1.9B in 2010, 2.9B in 2011). The best sign for Sprint's future is that they're going to be spending what their competitors are spending on their network.
    http://www.howardforums.com/showthre...over-2013-2014

    Softbank CEO did mention prior they have budgeted $16B for 2013/2014. I was surprised Sprint specifically stated they are launching 2.5GHz LTE across their network vs the prior plan of "major metro hot spots".


    - Focus on Post-Network Vision Build

    "If the network isn't good, customers are going to complain", Mr. Son said, adding that "Sprint will seek to pull even with Verizon in high-speed coverage in about two years."



    http://www.softbank.co.jp/en/design_...012_004_03.pdf

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