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Thread: Obamacare

  1. #16
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    You cannot try to reason with these people. It's not about ACA been good or bad, they only oppose it because Obama has something to do with it. If it were a GOP bill, they will not oppose it. Look at RomneyCare in Massachusetts as an example. Romney passed it then was opposed to the same very idea when Obama tried the same.

    When the same laws were passed under W. Bush, no one had a problem with it, but as soon Obama or the Dems have something to do with it, they call it socialism and say 'I want my country back'

    I don't see how people vote against their own self interest. Look at most of the states who vote Republican, these are the poorest states who heavily depend on the social safety net of Medicaid, Medicare, Food stamps etc, but yet they oppose 'big government' where the hell do they think the checks are coming from? These same mostly republican states are also those with the poorest citizens who need health insurance the most. Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, Kentucky, just to name a few.


    A few people died in Benghazi and they say Obama must be impeached, but no one seem to care that 3000 people died on 9/11 when Bush was President.

    We are supposedly the richest country in the developed world, yet we have one of the lowest life expectancy rates.

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    Originally Posted by every1nosme
    Btw, hope everyone notices that I really do hate Obama and will go to any length to persuade everyone else to hate him. Why can't people just hate Obama as much as I do?. Sometimes debating with myself can be tiresome.

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    You really are crazy.
    You are truly pathetic.

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    what is this new feature, and how can I manipulate it in order to make myself seem superior to those around me?

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    You cannot try to reason with these people. It's not about ACA been good or bad, they only oppose it because Obama has something to do with it. If it were a GOP bill, they will not oppose it. Look at RomneyCare in Massachusetts as an example. Romney passed it then was opposed to the same very idea when Obama tried the same.

    When the same laws were passed under W. Bush, no one had a problem with it, but as soon Obama or the Dems have something to do with it, they call it socialism and say 'I want my country back'

    I don't see how people vote against their own self interest. Look at most of the states who vote Republican, these are the poorest states who heavily depend on the social safety net of Medicaid, Medicare, Food stamps etc, but yet they oppose 'big government' where the hell do they think the checks are coming from? These same mostly republican states are also those with the poorest citizens who need health insurance the most. Mississippi, Alabama, Texas, Kentucky, just to name a few.


    A few people died in Benghazi and they say Obama must be impeached, but no one seem to care that 3000 people died on 9/11 when Bush was President.

    We are supposedly the richest country in the developed world, yet we have one of the lowest life expectancy rates.
    How dp you know if you can reason with "these people"? Have you even tried or did you immediately resort to name calling and implications of a lack of intelligence simply because someone had a difference of opinion from yours? Do you realize the lack of respect and common decency that any of you here afforded me simply because I asked if your opinion had changed now that we are several years removed from the original debate? You have all shown how simple minded and pathetic you really are when you immediately attacked me rather than answer any of the questions that were raised with this issue. Are you really so simplistic that you believe this is the perfect and only solution to a complicated issue that will continue to plague this country because anytime anyone dares to question the status quo unthoughtful, disrespectful individuals such as yourself resort to name calling and ridiculing rather than actually have a meaningful discussion about any of the issues raised. You have all shown yourselves to be self righteous morons more interested in seeming superior to those around you than actually being contributing members of a functioning society trying to better itself for the future. Grow up and get off your parents internet connection and join the adult world of people wishing to move forward and find solutions to real world problems rather than immediately labeling people and shutting down all meaningful conversation about any topic that might not be comfortable for you. I never once mentioned qnything negative about the POTUS so all of you trying to put words in my mouth can grow up and get a life for godsakes. And if you can't stand to hear any criticism of your favorite politician simply because he's a member of the same political party as you then you need a reality check. Its no wonder we stand as a country divided these days when you lot are a shining example of what passes for political discourse these days. If you can't even afford someone the common decency and respect due all individuals regardless of their political affiliation then we are doomed never find any common ground and move forward with solutions that could continue to make this a great country. Its uncivil discourse such as you have demonstrated that perpetuated the lack of progress in many great debates in the hsitory of this country such as civil rights and womens rights. If not for people such as yourselves reacting this way to issues they disagreed about they would have had to stand firm and debate Mr King on the actual substance of the argument instead of standing and trying to ridicule him and ignore the substance of his argument. I'm so glad to see you agree with the tactics of people in the past who sought to marginalize their opponent rather than move the argument forward on the issues. Let me sum all that up for those simple minded among you ; losers!

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  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by every1nosme View Post
    How dp you know if you can reason with "these people"? Have you even tried or did you immediately resort to name calling and implications of a lack of intelligence simply because someone had a difference of opinion from yours? Do you realize the lack of respect and common decency that any of you here afforded me simply because I asked if your opinion had changed now that we are several years removed from the original debate? You have all shown how simple minded and pathetic you really are when you immediately attacked me rather than answer any of the questions that were raised with this issue. Are you really so simplistic that you believe this is the perfect and only solution to a complicated issue that will continue to plague this country because anytime anyone dares to question the status quo unthoughtful, disrespectful individuals such as yourself resort to name calling and ridiculing rather than actually have a meaningful discussion about any of the issues raised. You have all shown yourselves to be self righteous morons more interested in seeming superior to those around you than actually being contributing members of a functioning society trying to better itself for the future. Grow up and get off your parents internet connection and join the adult world of people wishing to move forward and find solutions to real world problems rather than immediately labeling people and shutting down all meaningful conversation about any topic that might not be comfortable for you. I never once mentioned qnything negative about the POTUS so all of you trying to put words in my mouth can grow up and get a life for godsakes. And if you can't stand to hear any criticism of your favorite politician simply because he's a member of the same political party as you then you need a reality check. Its no wonder we stand as a country divided these days when you lot are a shining example of what passes for political discourse these days. If you can't even afford someone the common decency and respect due all individuals regardless of their political affiliation then we are doomed never find any common ground and move forward with solutions that could continue to make this a great country. Its uncivil discourse such as you have demonstrated that perpetuated the lack of progress in many great debates in the hsitory of this country such as civil rights and womens rights. If not for people such as yourselves reacting this way to issues they disagreed about they would have had to stand firm and debate Mr King on the actual substance of the argument instead of standing and trying to ridicule him and ignore the substance of his argument. I'm so glad to see you agree with the tactics of people in the past who sought to marginalize their opponent rather than move the argument forward on the issues. Let me sum all that up for those simple minded among you ; losers!

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    Yes, I tried. I asked you how costs are going up in post #2. I also asked you to provide evidence how the ACA is raising your premiums, to which you never responded. I even posted some info to try to get a conversation going. Your first response (post#3) to me was to imply that I do not know how to use google to find evidence to support your claims. No, that is your job. To find evidence to back up your post, not mine. Please respond to what a posted if you want a meaningful conversation. My reply to your claims and my posts were made over a week ago (July 29th). I got no response from you for 9 days! I therefore concluded that you are not interested in the issues.

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    As a younger person who employs younger people for the most part, I forsee this driving up healthcare costs. But hey, what can you do?

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    Hi neovzwguy,
    You are right to a certain extent that the ACA will drive up health ins costs if you do not currently have health ins, so instead of costing you $0, you know have to pay something.

    If you provide your employees health ins before the ACA, then your health ins premiums should go down. How would ins premium go down?

    Let's say the total medical costs for all Americans for this year is 1 trillion dollars, regardless of who buys insurance coverage. Now lets say only half of the U.S population (i.e. 150 million) buy insurance each year and on average their monthly premiums are $100 for each person. The other half of the population (150 million) do now buy into health ins because they are mostly healthy and less likely to need healthcare.

    If the government now requires everyone in the country (i.e. 300 million) to buy health insurance, the total medical costs for all Americans is still a trillion dollars/year. Now, instead of average monthly premiums been $100 for each person, it is now down to $50 for each person. This idea is called spreading the risk. The more people you have buying insurance, the cheaper it becomes for everyone else.

    Every year in the U.S, people without health insurance end up using healthcare services, but have no way of paying for this care. Millions of uninsured Americans wind up seeking treatment in emergency rooms, where, by law, the uninsured must get treated. Ultimately, everyone who uses the health care system feels the consequences. The end result is someone has to pay for these expenses. Who pays for this you ask? Well, those insured end up paying for those uninsured. It is only fair that the cost of healthcare is spread among the population.

    Please read this short article on how uninsured Americans affect you. You will be surprised.
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/DrJohnson/...=128240&page=1

    Some make the argument that Obamacare will provide free healthcare to lazy or poor people. Guess what, Poor and lazy people already have free health insurance through Medicaid. poor/lazy people have been getting this for decades and will continue regardless of Obamacare. The ACA is mostly trying to make people who are not getting these free services to buy insurance. These are mostly young adults who rarely need healthcare. Those who have free insurance still don't have to pay anything.

    The ACA is not perfect, but it is a start. It has been stripped of most its original benefits, namely Single payer. This would have eliminated the insurance companies and also remove the burden of employers providing insurance to their employees.

    In this country, if you own a car, you are required to buy insurance, even if you are the safest driver and have never been in any accidents. Auto insurance covers damage liability towards other drivers and property. Still some people drive without insurance and premiums for the rest of us goes up to cover the cost of damages caused by the uninsured drivers. Similarly, health care costs keep going up to cover the cost of uninsured ER and hospital use



    http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/20...surance-works/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/he...pagewanted=all
    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/califo...are-6C10071008

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousP View Post
    Yes, I tried. I asked you how costs are going up in post #2. I also asked you to provide evidence how the ACA is raising your premiums, to which you never responded. I even posted some info to try to get a conversation going. Your first response (post#3) to me was to imply that I do not know how to use google to find evidence to support your claims. No, that is your job. To find evidence to back up your post, not mine. Please respond to what a posted if you want a meaningful conversation. My reply to your claims and my posts were made over a week ago (July 29th). I got no response from you for 9 days! I therefore concluded that you are not interested in the issues.
    Glad to see that you can justify your behavior because I had a slow response time. You're not interested in discussion or debate, you simply wish to shoot down anyone who's views differ from your own. Someone might as well close this cuz there hasn't been any response in here that even remotely came close to rationale, respectful discussion starting with the post by the person who created a second account with a username meant to imitate mine for the sole purpose of ridicule.

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  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousP View Post
    Your premium increase is a direct result of your ins co increasing it, not because of the ACA. The law isn't even in effect yet and your premium increase! Why?
    Sorry there is almost 3/4 of the total bill in effect. This year or next year it will be fully implemented and insurance rates did go up abnormally, so much so that in order for my employer to keep us in insurance he had to drop our old provider and find someone cheaper, which makes us a bit unhappy because the new insurance is not as good as the old.

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  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by every1nosme View Post
    Several parts of the law are in effect and why did my insurance company raise its rates? The simple answer is in anticipation of the rest of the law going into effect. Ever asked yourself why this law was 15000 pages and hasn't seemed to have any positive effects for most people when they could have passed a law that simply allowed purchase of health insurance across state lines that could have been written on the back of a mickeyd's receipt but yet none of the representatives of either party introduced that as part of the debate? That would have opened up competition between health insurance companies and forced prices and profit margins down but no one thought of that? How about ending the tax break your employer gets for providing part of the cost of your health insurance or allowing you to opt out of their preprovided plan and take the amount they contribute to spend on whatever policy you wanted?

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    Actually that part about selling across state lines was introduced but instantly rejected by democrats because it would lower costs for people paying for their insurance but would do nothing about making tax payers flip the bill for lazy POS mooches who sit on their arses. Democrats and RINOs have to keep their but kissing voter base so the real solution was skipped over in favor of the socialist solution.

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    Quote Originally Posted by blacksurfer View Post
    Politics aside for a sec. Lets say you work hard got laid off and got sick. Wouldn't you want any coverage than to be kicked out the hospital ?


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    There has been coverage in effect for decades, before OBC hospitals could to turn people away from medical attention if they could not pay, the whole reason why as many as ten hospitals in California have closed their doors in recent years, government mandates require they give medical care but the government quit reimbursing them because it was costing to much, you see the illegals were flooding across the border and using the hospital for free medical service knowing they had to provide.
    So the argument of " wouldn't you like to have if you lost your job" doesn't hold water, the service has been there for decades before Obama was elected.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by every1nosme View Post
    How dp you know if you can reason with "these people"? Have you even tried or did you immediately resort to name calling and implications of a lack of intelligence simply because someone had a difference of opinion from yours? Do you realize the lack of respect and common decency that any of you here afforded me simply because I asked if your opinion had changed now that we are several years removed from the original debate? You have all shown how simple minded and pathetic you really are when you immediately attacked me rather than answer any of the questions that were raised with this issue. Are you really so simplistic that you believe this is the perfect and only solution to a complicated issue that will continue to plague this country because anytime anyone dares to question the status quo unthoughtful, disrespectful individuals such as yourself resort to name calling and ridiculing rather than actually have a meaningful discussion about any of the issues raised. You have all shown yourselves to be self righteous morons more interested in seeming superior to those around you than actually being contributing members of a functioning society trying to better itself for the future. Grow up and get off your parents internet connection and join the adult world of people wishing to move forward and find solutions to real world problems rather than immediately labeling people and shutting down all meaningful conversation about any topic that might not be comfortable for you. I never once mentioned qnything negative about the POTUS so all of you trying to put words in my mouth can grow up and get a life for godsakes. And if you can't stand to hear any criticism of your favorite politician simply because he's a member of the same political party as you then you need a reality check. Its no wonder we stand as a country divided these days when you lot are a shining example of what passes for political discourse these days. If you can't even afford someone the common decency and respect due all individuals regardless of their political affiliation then we are doomed never find any common ground and move forward with solutions that could continue to make this a great country. Its uncivil discourse such as you have demonstrated that perpetuated the lack of progress in many great debates in the hsitory of this country such as civil rights and womens rights. If not for people such as yourselves reacting this way to issues they disagreed about they would have had to stand firm and debate Mr King on the actual substance of the argument instead of standing and trying to ridicule him and ignore the substance of his argument. I'm so glad to see you agree with the tactics of people in the past who sought to marginalize their opponent rather than move the argument forward on the issues. Let me sum all that up for those simple minded among you ; losers!

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    WooooHoooo loved that lambasting, you should of course know by now that name calling and shut down tactics are what they are told to do when they are losing the argument, particularly when their argument is being hosed with facts, liberal dems hate facts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnonymousP View Post
    Hi neovzwguy,
    You are right to a certain extent that the ACA will drive up health ins costs if you do not currently have health ins, so instead of costing you $0, you know have to pay something.

    If you provide your employees health ins before the ACA, then your health ins premiums should go down. How would ins premium go down?

    Let's say the total medical costs for all Americans for this year is 1 trillion dollars, regardless of who buys insurance coverage. Now lets say only half of the U.S population (i.e. 150 million) buy insurance each year and on average their monthly premiums are $100 for each person. The other half of the population (150 million) do now buy into health ins because they are mostly healthy and less likely to need healthcare.

    If the government now requires everyone in the country (i.e. 300 million) to buy health insurance, the total medical costs for all Americans is still a trillion dollars/year. Now, instead of average monthly premiums been $100 for each person, it is now down to $50 for each person. This idea is called spreading the risk. The more people you have buying insurance, the cheaper it becomes for everyone else.

    Every year in the U.S, people without health insurance end up using healthcare services, but have no way of paying for this care. Millions of uninsured Americans wind up seeking treatment in emergency rooms, where, by law, the uninsured must get treated. Ultimately, everyone who uses the health care system feels the consequences. The end result is someone has to pay for these expenses. Who pays for this you ask? Well, those insured end up paying for those uninsured. It is only fair that the cost of healthcare is spread among the population.

    Please read this short article on how uninsured Americans affect you. You will be surprised.
    http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/DrJohnson/...=128240&page=1

    Some make the argument that Obamacare will provide free healthcare to lazy or poor people. Guess what, Poor and lazy people already have free health insurance through Medicaid. poor/lazy people have been getting this for decades and will continue regardless of Obamacare. The ACA is mostly trying to make people who are not getting these free services to buy insurance. These are mostly young adults who rarely need healthcare. Those who have free insurance still don't have to pay anything.

    The ACA is not perfect, but it is a start. It has been stripped of most its original benefits, namely Single payer. This would have eliminated the insurance companies and also remove the burden of employers providing insurance to their employees.

    In this country, if you own a car, you are required to buy insurance, even if you are the safest driver and have never been in any accidents. Auto insurance covers damage liability towards other drivers and property. Still some people drive without insurance and premiums for the rest of us goes up to cover the cost of damages caused by the uninsured drivers. Similarly, health care costs keep going up to cover the cost of uninsured ER and hospital use



    http://www.getrichslowly.org/blog/20...surance-works/
    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/17/he...pagewanted=all
    http://www.nbcnews.com/health/califo...are-6C10071008
    How the government says things should go down and how things actually work are two different things, mostly because the government doesn't know it's backside from a hole in the ground, my employers insurance rates did not go down, and it has already been in the news that businesses are slowing hiring and even letting people go because of the increase in new obama tax that has already gone in to effect. My brother works with people at a zoo and people there are already regretting having voted for him over this one issue because their rates have increased so much.

  13. #28
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    You all who sent the reputation things can think what you want, but anyone who believes the government point blank without looking at what they are saying and doing and questioning why. is a sheep.
    Point of fact I watch NO Fox News because my satellite is off because there is nothing but crap on tv any more, I stream movies from Netflix, HuluPlus and Amazon. Cost less than 25.00 a month and far more worth watching than the other stuff. And I don't pay any attention to the MSM because they are all left leaning. Democrats and Republicans are crooked, we just have to watch the individual persons past, history, political ethics and vote for them based on what they have DONE. Not what they say. Actions speak louder than words.
    IMHO Dems (in washinton DC, the average citizen who thinks they are a democrat is a good person who just doesnt pay enough attention to what the party is actually doing). And most Republican are spineless cowards who dont have the balls to stand up to the corrupt liberals both dems and reps.
    Think of me what you want, but so long as we are still a free nation I still have the right to believe what I believe.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by AndroidFoneFan View Post
    WooooHoooo loved that lambasting, you should of course know by now that name calling and shut down tactics are what they are told to do when they are losing the argument, particularly when their argument is being hosed with facts, liberal dems hate facts.
    You find examples of this every day, however I hoped to find a more thoughtful community on here since for the most part the regular people who post here more than a few times generally demonstrate the ability to use logical thinking for the most part. I was equally shocked that someone took the time to create a profile similar to my own just to try and make an asinine point and that no one felt ashamed enough to respond to my lambasting or felt enough in the right to dispute it. I always think its ok to disagree and a healthy debate can be a good thing for both sides of an argument giving people with open minds an opportunity to see things from a different point of view and possibly even modify their own viewpoint but those who originally responded had no intention of doing anything except calling names and trying to ridicule anyone with a different viewpoint from their own and then, didn't even have the decency to try to do it in a civil manner. Funny thing is, I never even expressed what my viewpoint on the matter was before the first few ridiculous posts were made, I simply asked a question. If someone simply asking a question gets you in such an uproar over your viewpoint then that just shows how insecure you are in your beliefs and how weak your argument must really be.

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    Take comfort in knowing you are not the only one here who feels as you do.

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