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Thread: How many customers will leave if VZW get the guts to kick everyone off unlimited data

  1. #121
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    I do believe the days are numbered where the carriers can treat customers how they want and they still stick around and take it. There's too much competition now
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  2. #122
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    Originally Posted by GSMinCT
    A few hundred MB a month isn't abuse.

    Originally Posted by TC_Mits
    Yes. It is.

    TC_Mits, I hope you were kidding with that remark.
    A few hundred MB a month is abuse? When the lowest tier of data available on "More Everything" is 250 MB for $55, then
    500 MB for $70, with the next jump being to 1 GIG for $80, I think that Verizon's reasoning is "Well, most people will spend the extra 25 bucks for that gig of data.

    Using your reasoning, then 6 of their 9 " More Everything" plans allow for abuse.
    Why would you offer new plans that allow that much leeway for "abuse" of your network?

  3. #123
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    Out of context. This was a dumbphone situation that was exploited in a manner unintended by the carrier. Not your standard smartphone data plan.

    Perhaps GSM will be kind enough to link us to his original posts about the incident.

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  4. #124
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    Oh. I thought you were referring to a smartphone.
    My mistake.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Out of context. This was a dumbphone situation that was exploited in a manner unintended by the carrier. Not your standard smartphone data plan.

    Perhaps GSM will be kind enough to link us to his original posts about the incident.
    $10/mo Unlimited. Playing tricks with the billing system (well, not really, it just doesn't know what the Unlocked E71 is) and abuse of the data network are two different, and unrelated things. Playing games with their billing and IMEI system doesn't negatively affect other users of the network like network abuse does.

    AT&T has added a lot of unlocked devices to the "smartphone" list, but they chose not to add the E71, probably because it is so primitive. Now it's irrelevant, as everything if $15/mo under MSV...

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    The old Alltel plans and international UL data were expired, I believe. I have the AC since the late 90s(I think?) But I doubt that Vzn existed in 1985, did it?
    Verizon formed in 2000 in the merger of two large wireless companies operating under several brand names in different parts of the nation.

    Prices varied.

    Under the brand "Ameritech" GTE sold a 450 minute plan in Chicago for $132 (50 minutes for $29.50). GTE Mobilenet sold 600 minute plans for $147.95 in NE Indiana and $164.95 in Indianapolis. The low end plan was $27.95 for 50 minutes in NE Indiana and $31.95 for 30 minutes in Indianapolis. But buy your plan in southern Indiana from GTE owned "Contel" and you would pay $149.95 for 550 minutes ($24.95 for 20 minutes).

    I suppose one could say that Verizon never kicked any of those subscribers off of those per minute plans ... but I doubt anyone would want to pay those rates. The introduction of the America's Choice plans which included nationwide roaming helped eliminate stragglers. Phone technology changes made the old plans unworkable (a guide to the future). America's Choice II was a step in the wrong direction for many ... roaming areas were lost (another technology issue as some analog roaming partners chose different technologies for their futures).

    It was a mistake for Verizon to allow unlimited data plans to work on 4G phones. They could have drawn a technology line and defined unlimited plans sold to 3G customers as "unlimited 3G". But they have allowed 3G customers to BYOD or pay full price for a 4G phone and keep unlimited - and on the bulk/business side they have allowed (and still do) customers to buy 4G at a discount with new unlimited plans (I can still upgrade a phone at work and not lose the unlimited plan).

    I would not count on Verizon to continue to offer unlimited plans forever. There will come a day where no one will be able to get a new unlimited plan. There will come a day where no one will be able to keep an old unlimited plan and change phones (even BYOD/full price). Perhaps Verizon will lose a few customers when they make that decision - but the customers they lose will be the ones that are not paying their way on the network. The customers they keep will be the ones who are willing to continue to pay.
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  7. #127
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    Good post. Eventually, I agree, the $30 GF UL plan will fade – somehow – into the sunset. Not sure your scenario is the right one, but it's as good as any, given all we don't know…

    Also, I'd say, looking at vzw's enormous profits, that while some may pay more than others for their data, every vzw sub is more than paying their way.


    ~~~~~
    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    …Playing games with their billing and IMEI system doesn't negatively affect other users of the network like network abuse does.
    ...
    "Other users of the network" should use it less often so I can have the unlimited service I was legitimately sold and which I pay for. Either that or vzw needs to provide adequate data resources to meet the obligation it has freely incurred towards all its subscribers. Which is best? Hmm…

    You appear to have no grasp whatsoever of a business' responsibility towards its paying customers.

    You are simply dead wrong in expecting me and other UL customers to somehow modify our behavior or curtail our data consumption because the data provider refuses to allocate the resources necessary to meet its commitments. The idea that it's somehow the customer's job to solve that problem is patently inane. You obviously have the intelligence to know better. I have no idea what sort of mental block keeps you from seeing how totally and even laughably confused you are about who should be expected to do what in this situation.

    Your idea is that the restaurant manager goes from table to table telling the all-you-can-eat patrons – after they've entered, been seated and ordered – that they can only get one extra plate because it's too expensive to buy enough food for them and the a la carte guests, too.

    Yeah. It's that! DUMB. Can you hear me now?


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    Last edited by TC_Mits; 04-17-2014 at 08:22 PM.

  8. #128
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  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Also, I'd say, looking at vzw's enormous profits, that while some may pay more than others for their data, every vzw sub is more than paying their way.
    I disagree. The use of absolutes causes trouble. "Every" sub would include those in the three digit GB range where the reported bulk rate cost of their data usage is higher than VZW charges for grandfathered unlimited. They are not paying their own way ... they are riding on the backs of people who are paying for what they do not use.


    Quote Originally Posted by TC_Mits View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    Playing games with their billing and IMEI system doesn't negatively affect other users of the network like network abuse does.
    "Other users of the network" should use it less often so I can have the unlimited service I was legitimately sold and which I pay for. Either that or vzw needs to provide adequate data resources to meet the obligation it has freely incurred towards all its subscribers. Which is best? Hmm…

    You appear to have no grasp whatsoever of a business' responsibility towards its paying customers.

    You are simply dead wrong in expecting me and other UL customers to somehow modify our behavior or curtail our data consumption because the data provider refuses to allocate the resources necessary to meet its commitments. The idea that it's somehow the customer's job to solve that problem is patently inane. You obviously have the intelligence to know better. I have no idea what sort of mental block keeps you from seeing how totally and even laughably confused you are about who should be expected to do what in this situation.

    Your idea is that the restaurant manager goes from table to table telling the all-you-can-eat patrons – after they've entered, been seated and ordered – that they can only get one extra plate because it's too expensive to buy enough food for them and the a la carte guests, too.

    Yeah. It's that! DUMB. Can you hear me now?
    I thought you were done?

    "Verizon Wireless Plans, Rate and Coverage Areas, rates, agreement provisions, business practices, procedures and policies are subject to change as specified in the Customer Agreement."

    And yes, I've been to that restaurant where one can order the "all you can eat" buffet or order food from the kitchen a la carte. The buffet food sitting out under heat lamps with other customers including children too short for the sneeze guard poking through it. Orders from the kitchen come freshly prepared. Perhaps you are finding better buffets ... but the best buffets I have been in do not have a la carte cooking. Every customer is an unlimited customer with an equal shot at getting the best food offered. Once there is a split between the "all you can eat" and "order from the kitchen" customer guess who gets the best food?

  10. #130
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    I agree that unlimited data should stay for those that have it. The bottom line is for those of us that have unlimited is getting smaller and smaller that it should not effect the network negatively at this point.

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  11. #131
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    I also want to say that we on this forum knew unlimited was going away for new customers before it happened so by signing up ahead of time while unlimited was still around was a benefit to us with the knowledge that it was going to end.

    via the HoFo App

  12. #132
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    I guess it's time for another lesson.
    Thread closed again.
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  13. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
    I guess it's time for another lesson.
    Thread closed
    Shall we try again?

  14. #134
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    One thing we do know. Verizon seems pretty good about letting people keep old plans. However, unlimited seems slightly more tricky. Im curious as to how many unlimited customers are remaining. If the number gets low enough and off contract I could see them taking action on unlimited sooner rather than later and risk losing a small amount of customers to rid the unlimited. Its a guess on my part though. The number could be small enough they don't do anything.
    things look good based on this article but its based on a survey with too small of a sample. Either way can't wait to see actual numbers. http://www.fiercewireless.com/story/...ons/2014-04-17

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    I disagree. The use of absolutes causes trouble. "Every" sub would include those in the three digit GB range where the reported bulk rate cost of their data usage is higher than VZW charges for grandfathered unlimited. They are not paying their own way ... they are riding on the backs of people who are paying for what they do not use.
    You didn't factor in the reneged subsidy dollars. Or the plummeting wholesale price of data. Or the slack time usage $0 marginal cost. …

    Even triple-digit usage yields an overall net profit. OK.

    If you want to get real picky there could be a few outliers skewing the bell… Negligible impact.
    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    I thought you were done?

    "Verizon Wireless Plans, Rate and Coverage Areas, rates, agreement provisions, business practices, procedures and policies are subject to change as specified in the Customer Agreement."
    Of course. I keep repeating that it can. The important thing is that it won't because vzw isn't stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by justalurker View Post
    And yes, I've been to that restaurant where one can order the "all you can eat" buffet or order food from the kitchen a la carte. The buffet food sitting out under heat lamps with other customers including children too short for the sneeze guard poking through it. Orders from the kitchen come freshly prepared. Perhaps you are finding better buffets ... but the best buffets I have been in do not have a la carte cooking. Every customer is an unlimited customer with an equal shot at getting the best food offered. Once there is a split between the "all you can eat" and "order from the kitchen" customer guess who gets the best food?
    Everyone can hear the squeaks and sprongs while you try to stretch that one into place.
    Really poor fit.



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    Last edited by TC_Mits; 04-19-2014 at 01:18 PM.

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