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Thread: AWS-3 LTE Compatibility?

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    AWS-3 LTE Compatibility?

    Are there any phones on the market that will be compatible with AWS-3 LTE? And if not, how long will we be waiting for them to hit the market? Specifically I was hoping that the iPhone 6 would have a chance of being AWS-3 compatible since I'll be upgrading to it from my Nexus 4 in September.

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    I would not future proof for AWS-3. You are likely to wear out another phone before it matters. If you are watching what is coming around the corner, you better get ready for 5G. It is being worked on.

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    Places like Japan already have 5G deployed (for testing only but still)
    It is sad I need to state the obvious but some people just don't get it. Any posts I make are my own OPINIONS and in no way represent the views of my employer

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    Quote Originally Posted by will888 View Post
    I would not future proof for AWS-3. You are likely to wear out another phone before it matters. If you are watching what is coming around the corner, you better get ready for 5G. It is being worked on.
    The AWS-3 spectrum auction is only a few months away. It shouldn't take very long for the carriers to deploy it for LTE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TigerMSTR View Post
    Are there any phones on the market that will be compatible with AWS-3 LTE? And if not, how long will we be waiting for them to hit the market? Specifically I was hoping that the iPhone 6 would have a chance of being AWS-3 compatible since I'll be upgrading to it from my Nexus 4 in September.
    Quote Originally Posted by TigerMSTR View Post
    The AWS-3 spectrum auction is only a few months away. It shouldn't take very long for the carriers to deploy it for LTE.
    I thought I read on MobileSyrup that stated AWS-3 can be easily integrated into the original AWS frequency so all current phones would be compatible for LTE?

    Also, does anyone know if WIND will carry the LG G3? I heard from the store rep they are waiting to release the Snapdragon 805 device variant, so they can "one up" the BIG 3. But there's not merit behind the claim, does anyone have any info?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc2000 View Post
    I thought I read on MobileSyrup that stated AWS-3 can be easily integrated into the original AWS frequency so all current phones would be compatible for LTE?
    That's my understanding too. If your phone currently supports AWS LTE you should be good to go with AWS-3.

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    Hmm... Some people in the forum were saying otherwise. Apparently there arent any phones that use AWS-3, since there aren't any networks that operate on it

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc2000 View Post
    I thought I read on MobileSyrup that stated AWS-3 can be easily integrated into the original AWS frequency so all current phones would be compatible for LTE?

    Also, does anyone know if WIND will carry the LG G3? I heard from the store rep they are waiting to release the Snapdragon 805 device variant, so they can "one up" the BIG 3. But there's not merit behind the claim, does anyone have any info?
    Um no. I will eat a shoe if any of the current AWS phones sold in North America is AWS3 compatible. That's like saying all PCS phones are compatible with PCS-G network. Ask Public Mobile how that worked out.

    Look for possible AWS3 compatibility with phones being released later this year at the earliest (think iPhone 6, Note 4, Blackberry Passport), and I don't even think they will be compatible.
    All comments are my own opinion and do not reflect the views of my employer or affiliated groups.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kav2001c View Post
    Places like Japan already have 5G deployed (for testing only but still)
    5G is not even defined yet, and 5GPPP has only recently been formed. They have not released any specs, and vendors have not made any actual equipment.

    LTE-Advanced (which is the first real 4G technology) is only starting to be deployed by some operators around the world.
    Want to learn more about how LTE works?
    https://productioncommunity.publicmo...ls/td-p/130581

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonavin View Post
    Um no. I will eat a shoe if any of the current AWS phones sold in North America is AWS3 compatible. That's like saying all PCS phones are compatible with PCS-G network. Ask Public Mobile how that worked out.

    Look for possible AWS3 compatibility with phones being released later this year at the earliest (think iPhone 6, Note 4, Blackberry Passport), and I don't even think they will be compatible.
    Not disputing what you're saying but I think James Moore was the one who said all the phones with AWS would be compatible with AWS3 during the auction announcement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Mystery View Post
    Not disputing what you're saying but I think James Moore was the one who said all the phones with AWS would be compatible with AWS3 during the auction announcement.
    I'm am not sure of the exact quote you are referring to, but I shall attempt to clear things up.

    In the US, the FCC has an interoperability mandate for AWS-1 and AWS-3, so that all devices and networks that are compatible with any part of AWS-3 , must be fully compatible with all of AWS-3 as well as all of AWS-1.

    This does not affect current phones as they are already out and networks deployed before there was any of this AWS-3 interoperability talk. On top of that, the current AWS-3 band, Band 10, does not support all of AWS-3 and will either have to be expanded to 1780mhz and 2180mhz (from 1770mhz and 2170mhz, respectively) or a new band created altogether, before it can be used in the US.

    What effect does that have on Canada?
    While Industry Canada has not explicitly mandated interoperability, it has implied that is what it expects. Based on this and Canadian carriers following their US counterparts due to a much larger base creating economies of scale, it would be expected that an expanded Band 10, or whatever new band s created would become the norm in Canada as well as the US.

    However, there is one main reason this may not happen, albeit extremely unlikely:
    Industry Canada set-aside covers the 1755-1770/2155-2170mhz range, while leaving the 1770-1780/2170-2180 for open bidding. This could lead to the winners of the set-aside deploying the current Band 10 if there is any delay in expanding it or creating a new band. This would create a fragmented system as Robellus would have to wait for the expanded/new band to be standardized before deploying, rendering the set-aside and Robellus AWS-3 networks incompatble.

    So back to what you wrote:
    Any phone that currently supports AWS (Band 4) will NOT be able to use AWS-3 spectrum.
    In the future, phones that support AWS will likely support both through either an expanded Band 10 or completely new band. Networks will most likely use MFBI (Multi-Frequency Band Indicator) to broadcast compatibility for both AWS-1 and AWS-3 in Band 4 and expanded Band 10/new band, as long as they are using purely AWS-1 frequencies, or a combination of AWS-1 and AWS-3. If a network is AWS-3 only however, it will only be able to broadcast the expanded Band 10/new band as it does not use any AWS-1/Band 4 frequencies and is therefore incompatible with phones (including all current phones) that only support Band 4.

    Read more on Canada's AWS-3 auction here: http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/smt-gst.nsf/eng/sf10851.html

    TL;DR
    No current phone can use AWS-3. Future phones will be able to and should be backward compatible with Band 4/AWS-1.

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    In other words... If you make a phone work on AWS3, it has to work on AWS1 as well. In the US this rule is mandatory, in Canada it's not... But who's going to use the Canadian rules over the more restive US one? That does not mean current AWS1 are compatible with AWS3. I don't expect the average person to figure this out but somebody reporting on wireless news should either do some more investigation instead or not add heir comments another compatibility instead of jumping to the obviously wrong conclusion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonavin View Post
    Um no. I will eat a shoe if any of the current AWS phones sold in North America is AWS3 compatible. That's like saying all PCS phones are compatible with PCS-G network. Ask Public Mobile how that worked out.

    Look for possible AWS3 compatibility with phones being released later this year at the earliest (think iPhone 6, Note 4, Blackberry Passport), and I don't even think they will be compatible.
    None of the phones coming out this fall will support AWS-3 due to the interoperability requirement in the US which requires either expanding Band 10 range, or creating a new band altogether. Work is underway to fulfill this, but I am not sure if it will be completed by the time 3GPP Rel-12 is standardized in December. If it is finished before then, I would expect to see some AWS-3 devices out in 2015. If not, then it will probably be 2H 2016 before we see anything (3GPP Rel-13 is scheduled for March 2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonavin View Post
    In other words... If you make a phone work on AWS3, it has to work on AWS1 as well. In the US this rule is mandatory, in Canada it's not... But who's going to use the Canadian rules over the more restive US one? That does not mean current AWS1 are compatible with AWS3. I don't expect the average person to figure this out but somebody reporting on wireless news should either do some more investigation instead or not add heir comments another compatibility instead of jumping to the obviously wrong conclusion.
    Pretty much.
    Industry Canada refers to interoperability as if it is going to happen (unsurprising due to Canadian wireless so often following the US lead for economies of scale and less cross-border issues), so while it hasn't explicitly required it, if fragmentation seems to be happening, I would presume they would step in with a mandate.

    As I didn't post this before, here are the details on the various "AWS" bands:

    Band 4: Commonly called AWS-1(or simply AWS at the present if you are being generic); 1710-1755mhz uplink, 2110-2155mhz downlink; Widely supported band in the Americas.

    Band 10: Commonly called Extended AWS or AWS-3(both of which are slightly incorrect/confusing, especially when talking about the AWS-3 auctions); 1710-1770mhz uplink, 2110-2170mhz downlink

    AWS-3 (referring to the Can/US auctions): 1755-1780mhz uplink, 2155-2180mhz downlink; the US is also auctioning off 1695-1710mhz for uplink and calling it part of AWS-3, but that is outside the scope of current discussion and has been set aside by the 3GPP to worry about later

    Band 24: Commonly known as AWS-4 or S-Band; 2000-2020mhz uplink, 2180-2200mhz downlink; owned by Dish in the US

    The downlink portion of Band 24 is being considered for inclusion in the new/extended AWS Band, along with (potentially, but much less likely) the 1695-1710mhz uplink of the US AWS-3. These are currently irrelevant for the most part, but will impact the new band as far as frequencies and some business/bidding decisions for Dish and the US AWS-3 auction.

    Interoperability mainly refers the combination to create a contiguous band for 1710-1780mhz uplink and 2110-2180mhz downlink. This may end up happening by simply extending Band 10 to these frequencies, or by creating a completely new band.


    In the end, AWS-1 and AWS-3 will be interoperable and cross-compatible with 2 potential exceptions:
    1. You have an AWS-1 only network operating on Band 4 without MFBI and a phone only supports the new inclusive AWS band (which combines both AWS-1 and AWS-3). This is a definite possiblility, and may occur a few times, but I expect most/all AWS operators for implement MFBI if they use any AWS-1 spectrum for backwards compatibility.
    2. You have a network that runs solely on AWS-3 (this may very well happen for Canada;s new entrants depending on mergers), and a phone that only supports Band 4 (AWS-1). This may very well happen, especially if new entrant mergers/spectrum acquisition don't happen on a large enough scale (especially Shaw's AWS-1 spectrum), where a new entrant will deploy AWS-3 on Band 10/new band and John Doe comes in wondering why his 2014 phone that supports AWS (Band 4) LTE won't work on the AWS (expanded Band 10/new band) network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dc2000 View Post
    Also, does anyone know if WIND will carry the LG G3? I heard from the store rep they are waiting to release the Snapdragon 805 device variant, so they can "one up" the BIG 3. But there's not merit behind the claim, does anyone have any info?
    I thought they were only selling that variant in Korea?

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