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Thread: More incompetence by Rogers Reps

  1. #1
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    More incompetence by Rogers Reps

    With so many opinions regarding Rogers competence or lack thereof in the other thread, this pops up.

    http://forums.redflagdeals.com/roger...-bill-1629089/

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    Moral of the story, when making your payments, make sure your numbers are right.

    Agreed that it shouldn't take weeks to get your money back in that situation. A standard customer service rep is probably not authorized to throw that kind of money around. But after escalating to a manager the issue should be able to be resolved quite quickly without the need to go to the media. At least in the end she got her twenty grand back. I bet she doesn't make that mistake again... Haha!

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    There is a valid reason why it can't be done instantly. These days paying large amounts on bills and then asking for a refund is how money laundering is being done. Try doing a 21,000 overpayment on a credit card and see what happens.

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    Rogers absolutely should get the payment back to her faster than that, and once she speaks to a manager, they probably will. That said, a couple things come to mind:
    - The obvious, she made it herself. Since it was with online banking, she could probably look into having it reversed through her bank directly.
    - There could be concerns about fraud which would prevent a large transaction from being reversed that quickly.

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    I call incompetence on customer also, Who pays 20 Grand for a Cell Bill and not question figures?

    Good thing dealing with Rogers is Customers get their overpayment refunded in time unlike peoples experiences getting Ripped off by Bell.

    Swallowed Troll Bait.

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    This came out of her bank account, so money laundering is negated. It was there in the first place.
    Un-Rogered, and getting better 'value'.

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    If you were trying to launder money by doing this, wouldn't the money have to come into Rogers in the form of a cash or cheque from a different bank account than it's being refunded to?

    I'm not quite sure how money laundering works, I think it goes like this though:

    Dirty money source -> legit business that meters illicit money through sales or something to turn illegal money into legal money -> pay income tax on "washed" money -> after tax "clean" money

    So in the case of using a business like Rogers to launder money it would go something like this:

    Dirty money source -> Rogers in form of overpayment -> refunded to customer, documented as a "refund" on the books -> money is now clean, can be claimed as "refund" income on the books, pay your income tax on it and then you have spendable money?

    Feel free to delete this post if it's violating some rule about illegal activity. I watched all of "breaking bad" and still couldn't quite grasp how money laundering worked, but it seemed like the intent was to meter it through the car wash.

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    More incompetence by Rogers Reps

    Quote Originally Posted by ircu View Post
    There is a valid reason why it can't be done instantly. These days paying large amounts on bills and then asking for a refund is how money laundering is being done. Try doing a 21,000 overpayment on a credit card and see what happens.
    And yet, once the media was involved, it was done instantly.

    The stated 'policy' of most businesses is pure BS. If they want to do it, there's always a way.

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    Rogers' website once locked up while paying my bill and charged my credit card 6 times in succession.
    The bank confirmed that the charges were processed seconds after each other and to ask for a refund from Rogers.
    Rogers also realized their system duplicated the charge but informed me that I would have to file a charge back through my credit card company.

    In the meantime, each month showed a credit balance because of the duplicated charge.
    Knowing that this over payment would eventually be reversed, I continued to pay the monthly amount (before the credit balance was applied).
    Three months later Rogers tacks on a giant late fee and hit the credit score because the bill went "unpaid" for three months after the duplicate charge.

    It took many phone calls to finally get the late payment fee reversed and credit score resolved.

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    Quote Originally Posted by RogersUser1 View Post
    And yet, once the media was involved, it was done instantly.

    The stated 'policy' of most businesses is pure BS. If they want to do it, there's always a way.
    If she is going to the media, chances are she's not trying to fraud the company, so that removes some of the necessity for those processes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    If you were trying to launder money by doing this, wouldn't the money have to come into Rogers in the form of a cash or cheque from a different bank account than it's being refunded to?

    I'm not quite sure how money laundering works, I think it goes like this though:

    Dirty money source -> legit business that meters illicit money through sales or something to turn illegal money into legal money -> pay income tax on "washed" money -> after tax "clean" money

    So in the case of using a business like Rogers to launder money it would go something like this:

    Dirty money source -> Rogers in form of overpayment -> refunded to customer, documented as a "refund" on the books -> money is now clean, can be claimed as "refund" income on the books, pay your income tax on it and then you have spendable money?

    Feel free to delete this post if it's violating some rule about illegal activity. I watched all of "breaking bad" and still couldn't quite grasp how money laundering worked, but it seemed like the intent was to meter it through the car wash.
    except that money from a refund wouldn't be claimed as income.

    This is isn't about money laundering.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceredon View Post
    except that money from a refund wouldn't be claimed as income.
    You sure about that? If you claim something as an expense as a tax write-off and you get the money refunded, it should be claimed as income to offset the expense.

    Quote Originally Posted by ceredon View Post
    This is isn't about money laundering.
    I'm aware of that. But it was brought up and I was wondering how overpayment could possibly be used as a way to launder money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    You sure about that? If you claim something as an expense as a tax write-off and you get the money refunded, it should be claimed as income to offset the expense.


    I'm aware of that. But it was brought up and I was wondering how overpayment could possibly be used as a way to launder money.
    It's been decades since I took any accounting courses but I did spend some time working as a junior auditor in the internal audit dept of a large investment house during my university days. It still can't be claimed as income. At best, it would be a debit on your balance sheet, but it wouldn't income and there would be a corresponding line item for the original expense. Any superficial audit would see both the expense and the refund coming from the same account and therefore not be of much use as a laundering scheme. It doesn't obfuscate the source of the money in any way, which is the point of laundering.

    A money laundering scheme, as it's most basic, is about masking the origin of ill-gotten income. AFAIK, it often involves investing into a business off the books and then claiming monies taken out of the business as legitimate income. An audit of your income then simply shows income from the business. But a closer and more forensic audit of the business might raise flags about the source for your original investment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ceredon View Post
    It's been decades since I took any accounting courses but I did spend some time working as a junior auditor in the internal audit dept of a large investment house during my university days. It still can't be claimed as income. At best, it would be a debit on your balance sheet, but it wouldn't income and there would be a corresponding line item for the original expense. Any superficial audit would see both the expense and the refund coming from the same account and therefore not be of much use as a laundering scheme. It doesn't obfuscate the source of the money in any way, which is the point of laundering.

    A money laundering scheme, as it's most basic, is about masking the origin of ill-gotten income. AFAIK, it often involves investing into a business off the books and then claiming monies taken out of the business as legitimate income. An audit of your income then simply shows income from the business. But a closer and more forensic audit of the business might raise flags about the source for your original investment.
    That's what I thought. I didn't think an overpayment would work for a money laundering scheme because you'd have to have the expense to offset the refund.

    That being said, a refund is still taxable income. Even in this case the refunded amount is less than the original amount spent due to the payment of $210 or whatever it was coming off the refunded amount. So on the books you'd have a $21,210.00 expense that you wouldn't have to pay income tax on, but a $21,000 refund that you do have to pay income tax on.

    It's just as though the $21,000 never left. The income cancels out the expense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    That's what I thought. I didn't think an overpayment would work for a money laundering scheme because you'd have to have the expense to offset the refund.

    That being said, a refund is still taxable income. Even in this case the refunded amount is less than the original amount spent due to the payment of $210 or whatever it was coming off the refunded amount. So on the books you'd have a $21,210.00 expense that you wouldn't have to pay income tax on, but a $21,000 refund that you do have to pay income tax on.

    It's just as though the $21,000 never left. The income cancels out the expense.
    I see what you're trying to say here but in this case we are talking about her business account. If she expensed it, then had the refund somehow paid to her personally, yes that would be tax fraud since the money should be declared as income. But she was just trying to get it refunded back into her corp account.


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