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Thread: More incompetence by Rogers Reps

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stately Automat View Post
    If she is going to the media, chances are she's not trying to fraud the company, so that removes some of the necessity for those processes.
    I guess we could speculate about anything, but Rogers didn't give that as their reason. They just saw that it might require an extra bit of effort, and so avoided doing.

    Everything is always a problem when it doesn't benefit them. The instant they see a downside to their obtinance however, there tune changes in a moment.

    My experience with many, many companies is that they ca do anything, refund anything, charge anything, or give any special allowance they want. They just hide behind policies so they can avoid being honest by pretending something you request is 'just not possible'


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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by RogersUser1 View Post
    I see what you're trying to say here but in this case we are talking about her business account. If she expensed it, then had the refund somehow paid to her personally, yes that would be tax fraud since the money should be declared as income. But she was just trying to get it refunded back into her corp account.


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    That's what I thought, thanks for clearing it up!

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    That's what I thought. I didn't think an overpayment would work for a money laundering scheme because you'd have to have the expense to offset the refund.

    That being said, a refund is still taxable income. Even in this case the refunded amount is less than the original amount spent due to the payment of $210 or whatever it was coming off the refunded amount. So on the books you'd have a $21,210.00 expense that you wouldn't have to pay income tax on, but a $21,000 refund that you do have to pay income tax on.

    It's just as though the $21,000 never left. The income cancels out the expense.
    I don't think you'd have a $21k expense on the books. She'd have an accounts payable line for $210, debit to that acct of $21k (vendor overpayment) with a matching credit against petty cash or some other acct. Accts payable would then show a large debit balance which would later be offset with a credit for the refund and a debit back to petty cash. But those line items would clearly show the source. Even if she tried to obfuscate the source, any superficial audit will turn up the discrepancy. The refund isn't income, it's a correction. She can't clam the $21k as a business expense unless she doesn't expect to receive a refund or doesn't expect it in a timely manner.

    in any event, we seem agreed that it isn't money laundering. Certainly there could be fraud, i.e.trying to get the refund in cash and never paying the credit card bill (often happens in retail) but not money laundering. The scary part about the money laundering claim here is that it apparently comes from a low level CRA employee.
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  4. #19
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    My service provider sent me a Bill of $89.00...

    1) I made a payment (online/telebanking) on due date.

    2) instead of making a payment of $89.00, I made a mistake and I paid $890.00...

    3) I don't want an account with a huge credit balance for months...

    Who should I call to correct my mistake?!?!?
    Disclaimer: All my posts, replies, comments and/or opinions expressed on www.howardforums.com are my own contribution only. The views expressed on this page do not necessarily represent or reflect the views of Fido, its management or employees.
    Fritz Z24...

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceredon View Post
    I don't think you'd have a $21k expense on the books. She'd have an accounts payable line for $210, debit to that acct of $21k (vendor overpayment) with a matching credit against petty cash or some other acct. Accts payable would then show a large debit balance which would later be offset with a credit for the refund and a debit back to petty cash. But those line items would clearly show the source. Even if she tried to obfuscate the source, any superficial audit will turn up the discrepancy. The refund isn't income, it's a correction. She can't clam the $21k as a business expense unless she doesn't expect to receive a refund or doesn't expect it in a timely manner.
    Depends how you do your books then I guess. I know I don't use accounts payable for things like phone or electric bills. I use accounts payable for purchase orders for inventory, not for operating expenses.

    The way I'd handle this if I was doing it would be something like this:

    Pay bill online, accidentally pay $21210.00 for a $210.00 bill
    Enter in books paid bill $210.00
    Realize paid extra $21,000 when I either check my bank balance or the next Rogers bill comes with a $21,000 credit
    Enter in books paid extra $21,000 to "Rogers" in my expense account. The reason I'd do it this way is because if you still wrote checks for paying bills, that's exactly how it would have been put in the system. Granted if you still wrote checks, the mistake wouldn't have been made in the first place, but I guess that's not the point here.
    Get refund from Rogers
    Enter in books got $21,000 back from Rogers as income.
    Try not to make such a boneheaded mistake again.

    The refund cancels out the expense. Accountant could fix it if I did it wrong, I don't think it matters though.

    Even in the "idiot proof" standard chart of accounts in QuickBooks there's a line under "income" as "refunds". Same with FCC's AgExpert which is what we use for our farm books.

    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Z24 View Post
    My service provider sent me a Bill of $89.00...

    1) I made a payment (online/telebanking) on due date.

    2) instead of making a payment of $89.00, I made a mistake and I paid $890.00...

    3) I don't want an account with a huge credit balance for months...

    Who should I call to correct my mistake?!?!?
    I think I'd call my bank first and then call the service provider if the bank couldn't fix it.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    ... I think I'd call my bank first and then call the service provider if the bank couldn't fix it.
    Good, therefore:

    1) Why subscribers having the tendency of calling their service providers FIRST rather then calling their financial institutions to correct their mistakes?

    2) Financial institutions do have procedures for clients errors? Isn't?

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Z24 View Post
    Good, therefore:

    1) Why subscribers having the tendency of calling their service providers FIRST rather then calling their financial institutions to correct their mistakes?

    2) Financial institutions do have procedures for clients errors? Isn't?
    because the company should be able to reverse/refund the payment.
    in my case Rogers saw their system charged me in succession seconds apart but wanted a charge back filed against them instead of refunding the duplicated payment.

  8. #23
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    More incompetence by Rogers Reps

    Quote Originally Posted by live_strong View Post
    because the company should be able to reverse/refund the payment.
    in my case Rogers saw their system charged me in succession seconds apart but wanted a charge back filed against them instead of refunding the duplicated payment.
    Well, if it's the provider's fault, I can understand...

    But, and you obviously know that, most of these cases came from the human who started the transaction...

    So if an individual made a mistake and paid his bill with an incorrect amount, is this person was suppose to contact his own financial institution to correct his own miscue?

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Z24 View Post
    Well, if it's the provider's fault, I can understand...

    But, and you obviously know that, most of these cases came from the human who started the transaction...

    So if an individual made a mistake and paid his bill with an incorrect amount, is this person was suppose to contact his own financial institution to correct his own miscue?
    depends on how the payment was being processed. if it was through the bank's website then i would contact the bank first.
    if it was done through Rogers then they would be my first point of contact.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    Depends how you do your books then I guess. I know I don't use accounts payable for things like phone or electric bills. I use accounts payable for purchase orders for inventory, not for operating expenses.

    The way I'd handle this if I was doing it would be something like this:

    Pay bill online, accidentally pay $21210.00 for a $210.00 bill
    Enter in books paid bill $210.00
    Realize paid extra $21,000 when I either check my bank balance or the next Rogers bill comes with a $21,000 credit
    Enter in books paid extra $21,000 to "Rogers" in my expense account. The reason I'd do it this way is because if you still wrote checks for paying bills, that's exactly how it would have been put in the system. Granted if you still wrote checks, the mistake wouldn't have been made in the first place, but I guess that's not the point here.
    Get refund from Rogers
    Enter in books got $21,000 back from Rogers as income.
    Try not to make such a boneheaded mistake again.

    The refund cancels out the expense. Accountant could fix it if I did it wrong, I don't think it matters though.

    Even in the "idiot proof" standard chart of accounts in QuickBooks there's a line under "income" as "refunds". Same with FCC's AgExpert which is what we use for our farm books.



    I think I'd call my bank first and then call the service provider if the bank couldn't fix it.
    Quickbooks:
    OPTION A – RECEIVE THE CREDIT AS A REFUND
    If you will not purchase anything further from the vendor, you can request a refund. You have to physically contact the person yourself and get the company to give you a refund.

    When / if you get the refund, this is what you do.


    Go to Record Deposits (banking > make deposits)
    For the Received From choose the vendor’s name and the From Account choose Accounts Payable
    Receive the payment
    This effectively creates a bill from your vendor that you can then use your credit to pay off.


    OPTION B – PAY ANOTHER BILL USING THE CREDIT
    To use the credit against a bill:


    Go to Pay Bills (vendor > pay bills)
    Select the appropriate bill(s) that you want to pay using the credit
    Below the bills click on the Credit button and use the credits (if you have credit left over, highlight another bill and repeat until either the credit is used up or the bills are all paid)
    Continue as usual and pay selected bills
    Assuming you are not using the overpayment to make future payments, quickbooks says to receive it was a refund as a credit to accounts payable to offset the debit balance there.

    AgExpert:
    1. Record the original cheque you wrote to the supplier, as in the example below. There won't be enough invoices to cover the entire amount of the cheque. Post the overpayment portion as an asset purchase (A+) to Prepaid Items and click Record.
    2. Open a new Transaction Entry window and create a payable charge for the amount of the overpayment, as in the example below. Make sure your total is negative to indicate that it's a credit on this account. Post it as an asset sale (A-) to Prepaid Items. This will clear the account to put it back to $0.00. Click Record.
    Again, the overpayment portion is posted as a negative value in accounts payable, which would be offset later by the refund being posted as a credit.


    The refund cancels out the overpayment, which had previously been logged as a debit balance on some credit account (I'd use AP for a vendor or supplier invoice). The expense record itself should not have been changed. Your expense didn't increase, just the payment itself which can be expected to be corrected in one way or another (refund or credit for future service).

    Anyway, I am sure there are many ways to skin this cat, none of which amount to money laundering through Rogers.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Z24 View Post
    Good, therefore:

    1) Why subscribers having the tendency of calling their service providers FIRST rather then calling their financial institutions to correct their mistakes?

    2) Financial institutions do have procedures for clients errors? Isn't?
    It depends on the timing. If she'd noticed right away, then she could call the bank to have the transactions canceled. But since she didn't notice until it was already posted to her account, her best course would be to call Rogers to have it refunded. Calling the back at that point would still mean Rogers being involved. So, unless she was looking to get even more people involved in trying to pass the buck, then she would be best to go to the party that can issue the refund, ie Rogers.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fritz Z24 View Post
    Well, if it's the provider's fault, I can understand...

    But, and you obviously know that, most of these cases came from the human who started the transaction...

    So if an individual made a mistake and paid his bill with an incorrect amount, is this person was suppose to contact his own financial institution to correct his own miscue?
    This really doesn't have to be about assigning blame. Yes, people make mistakes. We all do. This is about trying to remedy those mistakes. After the transaction has already been posted, it's been paid. Scotia bank can't just take the money back from Rogers without getting Rogers involved. Now there is just an extra layer of bureaucracy involved.

    Rogers knows these types of mistakes happen. They even have a policy in place for just such mistakes from their customers.
    Overpayments using telephone banking and online banking are not uncommon. Rogers said it has a clear policy intended to get consumers their money back in as little as 24 hours.
    Then the quicker solution would be to contact Rogers directly, explain the situation and hope she doesn't get someone that says "It's your fault. You made the mistake. Call your bank so they can fix it."

    Hopefully she instead gets someone who says "let me help get this fixed for you". Maybe that's hoping too much.

  13. #28
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    ^The Fido/Rogers procedure about misapplied payments is customer must contact their financial institution.

    So at this point, where is the problem of simply contacting the financial institution asking to reverse the transaction and re-apply the transaction with the correct amount accordingly?

  14. #29
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    If 75000 subscribers overpaid their accounts by mistake, why the service provider has to put extra work load on his side to process refund?

    Why not the 75000 persons work individually their own transaction from the source and re-apply their payments correctly?

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by ceredon View Post
    ... This is about trying to remedy those mistakes. After the transaction has already been posted, it's been paid. Scotia bank can't just take the money back from Rogers without getting Rogers involved. Now there is just an extra layer of bureaucracy involved.

    Rogers knows these types of mistakes happen. They even have a policy in place for just such mistakes from their customers.

    Then the quicker solution would be to contact Rogers directly, explain the situation and hope she doesn't get someone that says "It's your fault. You made the mistake. Call your bank so they can fix it."

    Hopefully she instead gets someone who says "let me help get this fixed for you". Maybe that's hoping too much.
    It's not even the matter of getting someone who willing to help the customer. The procedure is clear, subscriber must contact their financial institution to correct the transaction.

    All payments done from financial institutions must be corrected from the source, not through refunds.

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