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Thread: Range one might expect with 700 MHz LTE?

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    Range one might expect with 700 MHz LTE?

    I was trying to get an idea of about how far apart towers could be practically spaced with 700 MHz LTE. Looking at CellMapper, it looks like the tower on Mt. Cheaha in Alabama can easily hold a signal 30 km away. But I have no idea if the phones collecting the data were set to prefer band 12 or set to automatic. Of course, line of sight is everything and being on top of a 2000' mountain should provide a direct line of sight much longer than 30 km (55 mi).

    Does anyone have any experiences or theory that would provide a reasonable range for 700 MHz LTE on a 100' or 200' tower? Assuming a wheat field in North Dakota. Pine forest in Georgia?
    Donald Newcomb

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    Range one might expect with 700 MHz LTE?

    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I was trying to get an idea of about how far apart towers could be practically spaced with 700 MHz LTE. Looking at CellMapper, it looks like the tower on Mt. Cheaha in Alabama can easily hold a signal 30 km away. But I have no idea if the phones collecting the data were set to prefer band 12 or set to automatic. Of course, line of sight is everything and being on top of a 2000' mountain should provide a direct line of sight much longer than 30 km (55 mi).

    Does anyone have any experiences or theory that would provide a reasonable range for 700 MHz LTE on a 100' or 200' tower? Assuming a wheat field in North Dakota. Pine forest in Georgia?
    I know in nyc, verizon has bad 700C lte. Especially since they spaced the towers so far apart.

    In downtown brooklyn, verizons 700C tower is so slow

    Att i think in nyc has lte on all their towers. They had atleast one lte panel on their hspa towers before.

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    I'd love to know the range of 700MHz too and also in comparison, I'd like to know the range of T-Mobiles high band frequency towers.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by blaineh View Post
    I'd love to know the range of 700MHz too and also in comparison, I'd like to know the range of T-Mobiles high band frequency towers.
    Verizon has a good infographic illustrating the difference in range between various cellular frequencies, including 700 MHz. 2100 MHz AWS is what T-Mobile mostly uses (1700/2100 MHz that is):
    Name:  46HsvyF.jpg
Views: 21889
Size:  52.3 KB

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    Wow thanks!

    So if 700 goes that much father than 800, then 600 should be even better.


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    What I was aiming at is that I've used AT&T's Extended Range-GSM across Lake Superior up to 50 miles from the tower. I was trying to get some idea if LTE had a maximum range or maximum practical range. Everyone is so used to having towers every 5 miles along the Interstates that we forget that rural towers for AMPS "car phones" were originally spaced about 20 miles apart in wooded areas and even farther apart out West. Just how much of Kansas or Nebraska can be covered by a single 700 MHz tower? Also, how much difference would it make to have a WeBoost (a.k.a. Wilson) cradle booster? When T-Mobile starts building out some of these rural 700 MHz licenses, how far apart will they space the towers? 10 miles rather than 5 or more like 20 miles apart? No one has 3 W "car phones" with outside antennas any more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I was trying to get an idea of about how far apart towers could be practically spaced with 700 MHz LTE. Looking at CellMapper, it looks like the tower on Mt. Cheaha in Alabama can easily hold a signal 30 km away. But I have no idea if the phones collecting the data were set to prefer band 12 or set to automatic. Of course, line of sight is everything and being on top of a 2000' mountain should provide a direct line of sight much longer than 30 km (55 mi).

    Does anyone have any experiences or theory that would provide a reasonable range for 700 MHz LTE on a 100' or 200' tower? Assuming a wheat field in North Dakota. Pine forest in Georgia?
    I think you got the metric to imperial standard conversions wrong. 30 km is about 20 miles, but in any case LTE is officially rated for 100 km / ~60 miles at the most. I would think that 100 km is possible in North Dakota but I'm sure it would have be deployed at 1.4 or 3 MHz channels or other compromises would have to be made at that range. Unless, proven otherwise I think you will have trade quality and speed if you want something close to 100 km.

    I'm aware that UMTS 2100 was extended to 120 km by Huawei for Vodafone Iceland and that the Alltel GSM roamer network was running on some kind of extended range GSM service. At least for the latter there was a huge comprise in voice quality. Data was unusable anyways but I know that voice quality took a huge drop.
    Last edited by i0wnj00; 07-16-2015 at 01:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by i0wnj00 View Post
    I think you got the metric to imperial standard conversions wrong. 30 km is about 20 miles,
    Actually, I meant that 55 mi, the horizon distance from 2000' up, was much farther than 30 km.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    When T-Mobile starts building out some of these rural 700 MHz licenses, how far apart will they space the towers? 10 miles rather than 5 or more like 20 miles apart? No one has 3 W "car phones" with outside antennas any more.
    Im going to guess T-Mobile will co locate their equipment to match coverage provided AT&T and Verizon Wireless on towers owned by companies like SBA. That's all they need to do in areas where the 700 MHz license is available to them.

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    arent there other properties that can affect 700 mhz like atmospheric interferience

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    Quote Originally Posted by dandn1321 View Post
    arent there other properties that can affect 700 mhz like atmospheric interferience
    Naturally, and trees too. But in the North Dakota case those would be minimal. My concern is the practical range of the average LTE handset. Just how much power does LTE need at a long range? In the case of using ER-GSM at 50 miles, I was using a small hardwired Yagi antenna. The GSM signal is a brief TDMA burst 200 kHz wide. Since there are 8 time slots, you transmit that burst at 4.8 W and stay under the 0.6 W average power limit. LTE is more complex using OFDMA downlink and SC-FDMA for the uplink, which to me falls into the realm of the occult. As in most cellular system, the range limit frequently is mostly limited by the uplink channel, not the downlink. While some systems have demonstrated a >100 km range, this is generally to a fixed site with either a high-gain flat-panel or Yagi antenna.

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    Hmm that would make sense but I am worried about the uplink channel being fragile..

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    Quote Originally Posted by inferno10 View Post
    Verizon has a good infographic illustrating the difference in range between various cellular frequencies, including 700 MHz. 2100 MHz AWS is what T-Mobile mostly uses (1700/2100 MHz that is):
    Name:  46HsvyF.jpg
Views: 21889
Size:  52.3 KB
    I live in NYC...

    That infographic is Bull (in practice)

    If B13 was so damm good, why do I keep dropping to 1900 3G? Why doesn't it outrun 850 CLR 1X like it's supposed to.

    We need RRU's and Small cell's yesterday

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeluscher159 View Post
    I live in NYC...

    That infographic is Bull (in practice)

    If B13 was so damm good, why do I keep dropping to 1900 3G? Why doesn't it outrun 850 CLR 1X like it's supposed to.

    We need RRU's and Small cell's yesterday
    too many factors

    verizon might have limited the signal power / antenna angle of B13 to avoid multi-cell interference, or skipped towers for B13 (you might be connecting to 1900mhz on a closer tower), or the network dropped you down to 1900 due to congestion



    but yeah, low frequency bands are useful for range.... and NYC doesn't need range, it needs density and backhaul

    you need range when driving on the highway for upstate NY (starting to get more LTE on the trip towards Albany, but still bad spots )

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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeluscher159 View Post
    I live in NYC...

    That infographic is Bull (in practice)

    If B13 was so damm good, why do I keep dropping to 1900 3G? Why doesn't it outrun 850 CLR 1X like it's supposed to.

    We need RRU's and Small cell's yesterday
    Its reached its capacity and verizon knows it. Thats why they are pushing AWS LTE as the overlay to ease congestion issues. But their AWS network isnt as dense as their 3G network


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