Page 72 of 72 FirstFirst ... 22 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72
Results 1,066 to 1,079 of 1079

Thread: Northern MI T-Mobile buildout has begun!

  1. #1066
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    578
    Device(s)
    Note9
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T, Google Fi, Mint
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by NotABiot View Post
    Here at Pit Spitters Park in Traverse City, MI, Verizon is snoozing at an unusable 0.5 Mbps, and T-Mobile is sauntering as at a brisk pace of 7.0 Mbps.
    And what's AT&T doing? 50mbps? Their B2 holdings are insane up there, they can just blast out the bandwidth.

    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    Also, what is that network backhaul in these areas. One can imagine that some areas like Kinross might have access to fiber or backhaul to Sault / St. Ignace. Once you get west of I-75 far enough, I suspect that much of these areas might have some form of mesh microwave or even.. satellite (gack) backhaul. I ran into a similar issue in California's central valley, where congestion was poor, even with full signal having +500ms ping and a ton of spectrum - band 4,2,12,71. Most network designs outside of cities are either a bus or hub/spoke design, I would imagine.
    I wonder if they can't keep up with getting backhaul out to some of these areas, or aren't willing to pay the same prices that AT&T and Verizon are for it.

  2. #1067
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles/Canada
    Posts
    11,265
    Device(s)
    LG G7 (T-Mobile), iPhone 8 (AT&T)
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    And what's AT&T doing? 50mbps? Their B2 holdings are insane up there, they can just blast out the bandwidth.
    It truly depends on location. As I mentioned - in a place like Kinross (1/2 way between Sault and St. Ignace), I hit 92Mbps. Most likely local fiber or backhauled to Sault or St. Ignace by microwave.
    Looks like microwave:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@46.2170...7i13312!8i6656

    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    I wonder if they can't keep up with getting backhaul out to some of these areas, or aren't willing to pay the same prices that AT&T and Verizon are for it.
    I suspect that may be the case, or they require newer microwave gear/fiber hub upgrade for their mesh. Eg. Expecting 60Mbps throughput (~20Mbps/3 sector) x 15 sites = 900Mbps. This would be OK on a '3G/HSPA' network, and basically assumes that there is a 900Mbps (1Gbps) trunk. It is possible that they backhauled this through one or more sites, but still only have limited microwave backhaul, and in many rural places in between towns don't expect much more than 10-20Mbps total. This depends on what T-Mobile and its backhaul providers have and are available. The UP in general doesn't have much off of I-75 and a bit running the southern UP to WI border.
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

  3. #1068
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    578
    Device(s)
    Note9
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T, Google Fi, Mint
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    I suspect that may be the case, or they require newer microwave gear/fiber hub upgrade for their mesh. Eg. Expecting 60Mbps throughput (~20Mbps/3 sector) x 15 sites = 900Mbps. This would be OK on a '3G/HSPA' network, and basically assumes that there is a 900Mbps (1Gbps) trunk. It is possible that they backhauled this through one or more sites, but still only have limited microwave backhaul, and in many rural places in between towns don't expect much more than 10-20Mbps total. This depends on what T-Mobile and its backhaul providers have and are available. The UP in general doesn't have much off of I-75 and a bit running the southern UP to WI border.
    Sharing 1gbps amongst multiple towers sounds like a horrible way to provide backhaul. If they're doing anything like that, they have a backhaul issue.

  4. #1069
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    15,575
    Device(s)
    Moto G7 Power, Nexus 5X
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, PagePlus
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Sharing 1gbps amongst multiple towers sounds like a horrible way to provide backhaul. If they're doing anything like that, they have a backhaul issue.
    It all depends on how you define "multiple". That could mean "two" or "ten".
    Donald Newcomb

  5. #1070
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles/Canada
    Posts
    11,265
    Device(s)
    LG G7 (T-Mobile), iPhone 8 (AT&T)
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    It all depends on how you define "multiple". That could mean "two" or "ten".
    This is true. It also depends on overall usage in those areas. Many areas - even in SoCal have extremely low usage. If a site is pushing only L600 10MHz x 3 sectors, it might hit ~50Mbps 'max' (150Mbps whole site). 6 sites running 50Mbps/sector trunked to 1Gbps fiber would suffice. I personally wouldn't be surprised if something like this is done...it comes down to usage/capacity/cost. I personally wouldn't be surprised if many rural sites were capped at 100Mbps 'per site'. Carriers can always upgrade 'as needed'. If there are towns of 300-3,000 and no customers except the odd tourist driving through... running fiber (unless it is already at the site) is expensive and time consuming. I'm not saying that it isn't done... I'm stating the obvious for the more rural areas.
    Eg. If a site is in a town/city where there is access to fiber, it will most likely make use of it.
    If it is 50km from town/city, on the site of a mountain... and fiber does not run along that route (or anywhere near), it will most likely backhaul with microwave.
    To add to your point microwave backhaul is even in the city where I am and is used (by AT&T in this case) ... where AT&T is also the local telco. https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3849...7i16384!8i8192
    T-Mobile does the same (bottom cells... Sprint is the top):
    https://www.google.com/maps/@34.3876...7i16384!8i8192
    Note: AT&T's CO is ~1/2 mile away from this location.
    https://www.corning.com/media/worldw...SASIA_12Q4.pdf

  6. #1071
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    578
    Device(s)
    Note9
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T, Google Fi, Mint
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    This is true. It also depends on overall usage in those areas. Many areas - even in SoCal have extremely low usage. If a site is pushing only L600 10MHz x 3 sectors, it might hit ~50Mbps 'max' (150Mbps whole site). 6 sites running 50Mbps/sector trunked to 1Gbps fiber would suffice.
    The problem is, when you've only got 50mbps per sector, the network crushes easily if there is an event or something and a lot of people are suddenly on that sector. Of course it depends on the locale, but that's just not a lot of bandwidth. One person downloading something can suck up all the bandwidth available on that sector easily. Sharing bandwidth makes a lot of sense in terms of having a bunch of towers sharing a fatter pipe, but it needs to actually be a fatter pipe. From everything I can see, T-Mobile has really cheaped out with their rural network, and has just done the bare minimum to claim coverage. From the descriptions of the Northern Michigan network, it seems to not be as good as the HSPA+ network AT&T built there years ago.

  7. #1072
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    15,575
    Device(s)
    Moto G7 Power, Nexus 5X
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, PagePlus
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    The problem is, when you've only got 50mbps per sector, the network crushes easily if there is an event or something and a lot of people are suddenly on that sector. .......
    I think we need to be clear if we're talking about sector RF capacity or site backhaul capacity.

  8. #1073
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    578
    Device(s)
    Note9
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T, Google Fi, Mint
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I think we need to be clear if we're talking about sector RF capacity or site backhaul capacity.
    Either one, although if you have more RF capacity than backhaul available, at least one sector can use all the backhaul in an event type of situation.

  9. #1074
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    578
    Device(s)
    Note9
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T, Google Fi, Mint
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    url]https://www.corning.com/media/worldwide/coc/documents/Fiber/Resource%20Center%20-%20LongHaul/Kadium_SASIA_12Q4.pdf[/url]
    Old, but interesting. My sense is that the majority of towers will end up with fiber, especially on Verizon with OneFiber, but there will always be some areas where it's just not practical. In that case, however, they will probably want to move from a whole chain of towers on microwave to a system that's more hub-and-spoke, or like a tree with a fiber trunk so that there aren't inner microwave links to congest.

  10. #1075
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles/Canada
    Posts
    11,265
    Device(s)
    LG G7 (T-Mobile), iPhone 8 (AT&T)
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Somehow, I don't think that this site would be overwhelmed with 150Mbps backhaul to some other location.
    M-94
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/HigVZ8ZtGEQHQ2PCA

    Dropped pin
    Near McMillan Township, MI
    https://maps.app.goo.gl/zTvB8zxQeJvGeWTV7

    Areas that end up being a mesh area typically rural/low volume traffic areas, or low traffic highways. In theory, links could be gigabit, and traffic will use what is available. I'd expect most actual towns to have some form of fiber backhaul.l to a CO or MSO. It's the in between areas that won't.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using HoFo mobile app

  11. #1076
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Posts
    578
    Device(s)
    Note9
    Carrier(s)
    AT&T, Google Fi, Mint
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    The question is whether they are actually connecting in every town, or making big chains of microwave.

  12. #1077
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Gulf Coast
    Posts
    15,575
    Device(s)
    Moto G7 Power, Nexus 5X
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, PagePlus
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    The question is whether they are actually connecting in every town, or making big chains of microwave.
    Early on in the discussion of T-Mobile's build-out in northern MI, it was mentioned that they were able to do so quickly by buying the established tower leases and backhaul from a failed wireless ISP. IIRC, the original towers all had fiber backhaul. They may have extended coverage to new, more remote, towers by microwave links. I don't think they have any multi-link microwave chains.

  13. #1078
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Posts
    3,042
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Right now, there is a smattering of band 71 and band 12 towers all over the region. Some of them rather far apart.

    Is it expected that they would be filling this in rather soon, or will they get back to it once they put something up in Barleycorn Nebraska, Crab-hole Louisiana, and Mountain Siesta Oregon?

  14. #1079
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Los Angeles/Canada
    Posts
    11,265
    Device(s)
    LG G7 (T-Mobile), iPhone 8 (AT&T)
    Carrier(s)
    T-Mobile, AT&T
    Feedback Score
    0
    vBActivity - Stats
    vBActivity - Bars
    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Early on in the discussion of T-Mobile's build-out in northern MI, it was mentioned that they were able to do so quickly by buying the established tower leases and backhaul from a failed wireless ISP. IIRC, the original towers all had fiber backhaul. They may have extended coverage to new, more remote, towers by microwave links. I don't think they have any multi-link microwave chains.
    Yeah, the area doesn't look like I would expect any large chains in a mesh but a couple/few sites in rural spots backhauling to a town/city. Eg. I expect Houghton/Hancock MI to have fiber as it is a college town, and the site is next to a hospital. Similar for Marquette... site next to AT&T CO. Places in the middle of nowhere... depends. If they do have fiber ... that's great.
    I know that up, north of the border, a LOT of it was microwave link backhauled... some may be fiber now (I was working survey crew when Bell was running fiber along Highway 17, north of Lake Superior, and Shaw was running fiber across the CP Rail line).
    Some spots were not on those routes, though - Rogers Wireless site (3g) in Northern Ontario - put up next to the old 'Long Lines' microwave relay.
    https://www.google.com/maps/@47.6573...8i8192!5m1!1e4

    I'd expect farming areas to have (or have had) microwave mesh. Currently... it depends on fiber runs, cost and ROI. If a company has a big project to wire all (or the vast majority) of sites with fiber.. then it may be fiber. Working for large companies.. you may see some big CAPEX for these kind of projects... typically during a 2g/3g to LTE upgrade.

Page 72 of 72 FirstFirst ... 22 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72

Similar Threads

  1. It has begun: The merger process between Sprint and T-Mobile
    By agalvan in forum General Prepaid discussion
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 07-15-2014, 07:28 PM
  2. Rev A has hit Northern MI
    By budone in forum ALLTEL
    Replies: 52
    Last Post: 08-26-2009, 03:18 PM
  3. T-Mobile USA has best quarter ever with more than 1 million net additions in the Four
    By VTECMAN in forum General Mobile Questions and Discussion
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 02-22-2003, 11:55 AM
  4. T-Mobile only has 20% of Cingulars Capacity?
    By ethune in forum T-Mobile
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-19-2002, 11:36 PM
  5. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 07-15-2002, 11:16 PM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks