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Thread: Windows 10 Mobile on Verizon?

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    Windows 10 Mobile on Verizon?

    I'm anxious to switch from Android on Sprint over to Windows 10 Mobile on Verizon, but it would seem that Verizon is totally uninterested in Windows Mobile, even to the point that VZ's sales people actively tried to steer me away from any of their Windows phones and stated that they would not be selling the Lumia 950/950XL. The sales person's response was "Mmm...no. Verizon doesn't like Windows."

    Any insights as to the future of Windows Mobile on Verizon?

    Any insights as to what the deal is? Is Verizon being pig-headed, or is Microsoft too difficult to deal with, or what?

    It has all the outward signs of a childish spat, and although the lack of Windows Mobile at Verizon won't hurt Verizon at all, it certainly hurts Windows Mobile's chances for acceptance and meaningful growth.

    Any legitimate, accurate insights will be appreciated, as my Android phone is dying and I need to switch as soon as possible. Although I'm committed to Windows 10 Mobile, I need to determine whether I can risk going for a Windows device on Verizon, or if I have to settle for AT&T in order to get a modern Windows Mobile device.

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    Well on Verizon you are limited to the devices that they offer but, which of course is much more restricted compared to the worldwide market for GSM devices. The only gains Microsoft has been making above 1 or 2% have been in the third world, so obviously that is where the latest and greatest will be found.

    In general I advise people to avoid Verizon unless they specifically need that bit of extra geographic coverage in certain regions. You have to make the judgement call comparing how well AT&T network covers where you live work and travel, compared to the availability of CDMA compatible Windows phones.

    Personally I think the platform is dead or at least dying, but that is just me.

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    I'm not 100% sure of this, but what I gather is that Verizon is an absolute control freak, pain to work with. Microsoft with Windows 10 mobile (or whatever it's called) is moving to a model where Microsoft updates/controls the OS themselves, like Apple does. That's EXACTLY how it SHOULD be for a whole host of reasons. I guess 10 mobile will get updated on patch Tuesday too? I'm not clear...

    Anyway they've separated out the code for the phone modem, and the carriers will get to approve that, but not approve the rest of what's running on the phone, though Microsoft is providing early access to it to the carriers so they can check it out.

    Apple did basically the same thing years ago with iOS, and Verizon at first wouldn't play ball. It's 1000% in the interest of consumers that the company who actually understands security and OSes have control over their own OS...and even to the benefit of Verizon, but they're just full of it and don't get it.

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    It seems that ATT is the most open to WP out of all the major carriers. I would think V would offer the least Windows Phone Support since they have come out on record saying they would not support the 950. Microsoft has been their own worst enemy, releasing a not complete OS for the 950 and people with phones running 8.1 have not received an upgrade for close to a year. The other issue is employee training and the us and them mindset. Easier to train in 2 OS's (IOS and Android) than 3. No need to look further than our own Govt. R VS. D. It's everywhere in our society your side and the other.
    Tricon23

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    Verizon sells the Lumia 735, The LG Lancet, and the HTC One M8. Microsoft never bothered to get CDMA certification for the 950 even though the necessary radios are built in. They are disabled in the baseband firmware by Microsoft, so Verizon CAN'T get the 950/XL. Microsoft's choice, not Verizon's.

    The Lumia 950 is only a placeholder until the Surface Phone is released. Microsoft has put minimal effort into the Lumia 950, and I'm guessing it will get pushed even more to the background the moment the SP is here.

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    There's no reason to get certification for something if Verizon's not willing to carry it.

    We don't know that there IS a Surface Phone, that's just conjecture, and the 950/XL are nice phones. The only issue I actually have with them is just that I like everyone else would love a hypothetical Atom based real-Windows phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HansCT View Post
    Well on Verizon you are limited to the devices that they offer
    Quote Originally Posted by tigerwolf View Post
    There's no reason to get certification for something if Verizon's not willing to carry it.
    Except the Moto X Pure and Nexus 5X/6P work on Verizon, and they don't carry them in stores.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tigerwolf View Post
    There's no reason to get certification for something if Verizon's not willing to carry it.

    We don't know that there IS a Surface Phone, that's just conjecture, and the 950/XL are nice phones. The only issue I actually have with them is just that I like everyone else would love a hypothetical Atom based real-Windows phone.
    Of course Verizon would carry it. They already sell three different Windows phones. And the 950 would be the best of them all, by a wide margin. There is no reason for Verizon not to carry it. The fact is that Microsoft put in the bare minimum effort and went with GSM only. Microsoft is all about the Surface Phone already and it's not even on the market yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    Of course Verizon would carry it. They already sell three different Windows phones. And the 950 would be the best of them all, by a wide margin. There is no reason for Verizon not to carry it. The fact is that Microsoft put in the bare minimum effort and went with GSM only. Microsoft is all about the Surface Phone already and it's not even on the market yet.
    They don't sell any phones with Windows 10 mobile, and don't want to give up control of OS updates, even though it benefits them.

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    Currently there is only the Microsoft 550, 950 & 950XL so not a large selection of phones for carriers to choose from. Hopefully some newer models are right around the corner. I think carriers like only 2 OS's to have for selections. It makes it easier to train employees in only 2 software versions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rambo47 View Post
    Of course Verizon would carry it. They already sell three different Windows phones. And the 950 would be the best of them all, by a wide margin. There is no reason for Verizon not to carry it. The fact is that Microsoft put in the bare minimum effort and went with GSM only. Microsoft is all about the Surface Phone already and it's not even on the market yet.
    Well, as I posted some time ago, I can testify at the highest court in the land that TWO separate VZ corporate stores I went into to inquire when the 950 would be available, both ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED me from looking at Windows Phone. When I inquired as to why Windows phones had such a small display in the back corner, the salesperson actually said "Verizon does not like Windows." Also, even though I had only a few month's experience with my cheap, trial Windows phone (a Lumia 635 on AT&T), I was better able to demonstrate the features of Windows Phone than were the salespeople (incl the VZ store manager on duty at that time in one of the stores). So, very clearly, VZ is, to put it mildly, anti-Windows, or perhaps anti-Microsoft. Not just failing to promote WP, actively discouraging customers who specifically inquire about it.

    If you believe the likes of Mary Jo Foley (blogs at www.AllAboutMicrosoft.com) and Paul Thurrott (www.Thurrott.com), Verizon is very choosy about all aspects of their network, so VZ likes to maintain tight control, including firmware updates to the phones. I can believe that, because Verizon is clearly the most keen when it comes to network performance and dependability, as experienced by their customers. With the globally insignificant presence of CDMA (yes, CDMA is important in the USA, but not nearly as important from a global market share perspective), rumor has it that Microsoft took the position that it was not worth the effort to appease Verizon just to get the 950/950XL certified on CDMA, so Microsoft walked away from the table on that one. IMO, that one is a toss-up...you can understand Verizon's position, and you can understand Microsoft's position, and they apparently agreed to disagree. IF anyone is interested, take a listen to Windows Weekly episode 445, a guest appearance by Microsoft VP Chris Capossela: https://twit.tv/shows/windows-weekly/episodes/445

    So IMO the second point is a draw, both VZ and MSFT are to blame, and neither VZ nor MSFT is to blame. But the first point is CLEARLY Verizon's fault, a conscious policy decision on VZ's part to ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE potential Windows Phone customers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDC_01 View Post
    Well, as I posted some time ago, I can testify at the highest court in the land that TWO separate VZ corporate stores I went into to inquire when the 950 would be available, both ACTIVELY DISCOURAGED me from looking at Windows Phone. When I inquired as to why Windows phones had such a small display in the back corner, the salesperson actually said "Verizon does not like Windows." Also, even though I had only a few month's experience with my cheap, trial Windows phone (a Lumia 635 on AT&T), I was better able to demonstrate the features of Windows Phone than were the salespeople (incl the VZ store manager on duty at that time in one of the stores). So, very clearly, VZ is, to put it mildly, anti-Windows, or perhaps anti-Microsoft. Not just failing to promote WP, actively discouraging customers who specifically inquire about it.

    If you believe the likes of Mary Jo Foley (blogs at www.AllAboutMicrosoft.com) and Paul Thurrott (www.Thurrott.com), Verizon is very choosy about all aspects of their network, so VZ likes to maintain tight control, including firmware updates to the phones. I can believe that, because Verizon is clearly the most keen when it comes to network performance and dependability, as experienced by their customers. With the globally insignificant presence of CDMA (yes, CDMA is important in the USA, but not nearly as important from a global market share perspective), rumor has it that Microsoft took the position that it was not worth the effort to appease Verizon just to get the 950/950XL certified on CDMA, so Microsoft walked away from the table on that one. IMO, that one is a toss-up...you can understand Verizon's position, and you can understand Microsoft's position, and they apparently agreed to disagree. IF anyone is interested, take a listen to Windows Weekly episode 445, a guest appearance by Microsoft VP Chris Capossela: https://twit.tv/shows/windows-weekly/episodes/445
    ,
    So IMO the second point is a draw, both VZ and MSFT are to blame, and neither VZ nor MSFT is to blame. But the first point is CLEARLY Verizon's fault, a conscious policy decision on VZ's part to ACTIVELY DISCOURAGE potential Windows Phone customers.
    Nice post I agree. I do think that it is being driven from the corporate level down to store managers too. Android vs. IOS, Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS,Android vs. IOS. No one wants a 3rd or 4th OS makes it harder to support.

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    Windows Phone market share is dropping in the US. Perhaps Verizon isn't interested in investing in a third mobile operating system with limited potential for sales. Every phone model they support/sell has a cost. It's hard to profit on a phone that very few people actually want.

    http://techcrunch.com/2016/01/29/win.../#.2fy5rl:mMgq
    Last edited by mch; 02-03-2016 at 11:22 PM.
    "I didn't get fat by accident. This was a personal choice. " - Kevin Gillespie

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    Quote Originally Posted by mch View Post
    Windows Phone market share is dropping in the US. Perhaps Verizon isn't interested in investing in a third mobile operating system with limited potential for sales. Every phone model they support/sell has a cost. It's hard to profit on a phone that very few people actually want.
    There are models of Android phones and models of old-fashioned "feature phones" that sell in very small quantities, yet VZ (and all carriers) keep them on-hand just to be able to have a full lineup and compete. Using your logic, how do you explain that VZ still carriers the Android-powered Kyocera Brigadier, for example, or those old-fashioned push-to-talk flip-phones? Have you EVER seen ANYONE use Verizon's push-to-talk? Have you EVER seen ANYONE in the real world using a Brigadier? I thought not.

    While one can argue the details of profit & loss on lesser-selling models, you can't deny that it is INFINITELY difficult to profit on a customer that goes to another carrier. As for me, switching from Sprint, and rest of family is on VZ, VZ was my preferred carrier...but I went to AT&T simply because AT&T supports Windows 10 Mobile and VZ does not. Funny, AT&T manages to carry & support Windows 10 Mobile and still make a profit.

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    Windows 10 Mobile on Verizon?

    Quote Originally Posted by SDC_01 View Post
    There are models of Android phones and models of old-fashioned "feature phones" that sell in very small quantities, yet VZ (and all carriers) keep them on-hand just to be able to have a full lineup and compete. Using your logic, how do you explain that VZ still carriers the Android-powered Kyocera Brigadier, for example, or those old-fashioned push-to-talk flip-phones? Have you EVER seen ANYONE use Verizon's push-to-talk? Have you EVER seen ANYONE in the real world using a Brigadier? I thought not.

    While one can argue the details of profit & loss on lesser-selling models, you can't deny that it is INFINITELY difficult to profit on a customer that goes to another carrier. As for me, switching from Sprint, and rest of family is on VZ, VZ was my preferred carrier...but I went to AT&T simply because AT&T supports Windows 10 Mobile and VZ does not. Funny, AT&T manages to carry & support Windows 10 Mobile and still make a profit.
    Well, clearly VZW made a business decision, probably based on some internal data we don't have access to. That's all I am saying. AT&T being profitable overall and VZW profiting from adding Windows 10 to its portfolio are two quite different things.

    The data we do have is that Windows Phone market share is small and falling and that at least one person on HF switched from VZW to AT&T for a Windows 10 option.

    I imagine the Brigadier and flip phones are popular with a segment of the population and that it makes financial sense for VZW. Maybe people who need rugged phones. The fact that I don't personally know anyone who needs a rugged phone probably says more about me than the market segment.
    Last edited by mch; 02-05-2016 at 09:39 PM.

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