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Thread: FBI Demands iPhone Backdoor from Apple

  1. #31
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    Apple deserves praise for standing up for its right to offer secure devices to all of its customers.
    Including mass murderers and terrorists. I'm so glad they can feel secure knowing that if they suicide bomb someone, nobody can get into their iPhone to find out what other disgusting plans they have in the works.

    There's got to be a medium between protecting the average joe's device and the devices held by convicted (or dead) terrorists/criminals...

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    FBI Demands iPhone Backdoor from Apple

    If the iPhone is locked with a reasonably long passcode, the FBI isn't going to get anything using the method they proposed anyway. Presumably people planning a crime would take reasonable precautions.

    The FBI must have a forensics lab capable of doing an offline attack by extracting the memory and hardware key. Would be kind of involved for data off one phone. This sort of attack would mean the FBI could brute force much more complex passcodes.

    There are layers here. The technology exists to get the data off the phone without Apple's help. It would just be expensive and time consuming. If Apple creates this software, they would be creating a relatively inexpensive and easily reproducible way to extract data from phones with 4-6 digit passcodes.
    Last edited by mch; 02-20-2016 at 10:13 PM.
    "I didn't get fat by accident. This was a personal choice. " - Kevin Gillespie

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    So a bunch of people are so worried about their "privacy" (like the FBI gives a flying F*** about your porn habits or who you're cheating on your wife with) that they'd rather see mass murderers go free than to have the ability to check their phone to use it as evidence against them.

    That's just idiotic.
    No, it's not idiotic at all. My phone has my contacts, my browsing history, and who I bank with. I wouldn't want all that information gathered on me.

    FYI, your porn habits, your mistress, your subway/train usage, your coffee buying habits, etc. may seem harmless when individually obtained. Put all that information together and you really start to put together a picture on someone, aka metadata. That's very powerful information to catalog on someone. That's the kind of information that is used to steal your identity or blackmail you.

    No one's advocating that mass murderers go free here. In this particular case, they were killed, FYI. The fear here is the slippery slope of demands that will come after Apple does this.
    nex·us [nek-suhs]
    noun, plural nex·us·es, nex·us.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by MkVsTheWorld View Post
    No, it's not idiotic at all. My phone has my contacts, my browsing history, and who I bank with. I wouldn't want all that information gathered on me.
    Maybe not, but again this isn't some remote app that someone can just use to get data on you. They still physically need your phone.

    So now you need a corrupt government employee to somehow steal your phone or discover your lost phone, then install a modified version of iOS, then run whatever machine or software they need to to try all every combination of every passcode possible until they break into your phone, just to get your browsing history, contacts and bank information.

    Seems a bit far fetched.

    You're more likely to drop your wallet and have your identity stolen that way. I can't believe how paranoid some of you people are.

    Plus Find my iPhone has a remote wipe feature. So if you lose your phone, find a computer or another apple device and erase your information.

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    FBI Demands iPhone Backdoor from Apple

    Mind that the find my iPhone wipe feature requires network connectivity. With the default configuration, you can put the phone in airplane mode without the passcode.

    Yet another feature that you should turn off.
    settings - control Center - access on lock screen

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    Quote Originally Posted by daleraver View Post
    And if they are found to be mailing letters back and forth then the FBI should be able to open and read all your mail. You know, just in case.

    It's the old, "Well, if you don't have anything to hide..." BS that privacy haters have always fallen back on. Read the 4th Amendment about being secure in their persons, papers and effects against unreasonable searches... and no warrant shall be issued but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation... describing the thing to be seized. That warrant essentially is a "Fishing Expedition".

    Edward Snowden did us all a huge favor when he revealed to some degree how the FBI and NSA overstepped their authority to spy on everyday citizens with "Nothing To Hide".
    The US issued a Warrant...Timmy is ignoring it and making it a privacy issue when in reality they just want in to this one particular device.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mch View Post
    @billm261
    here is the ACLU's comment:

    https://www.aclu.org/news/aclu-comme...-unlock-iphone

    NEW YORK — The American Civil Liberties Union said today that it would support Apple’s legal fight against a court order to help the government unlock an iPhone belonging to one of the people responsible for the San Bernardino shootings.

    Alex Abdo, staff attorney with the ACLU Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project, had this comment:

    “This is an unprecedented, unwise, and unlawful move by the government. The Constitution does not permit the government to force companies to hack into their customers' devices. Apple is free to offer a phone that stores information securely, and it must remain so if consumers are to retain any control over their private data.

    “The government's request also risks setting a dangerous precedent. If the FBI can force Apple to hack into its customers' devices, then so too can every repressive regime in the rest of the world. Apple deserves praise for standing up for its right to offer secure devices to all of its customers.”
    That's the thing this issue isn't about privacy or back doors...Tim cRook is ignoring a warrant for One phone. The US isn't asking for access to ALL phones, the Warrant is issued the same way it would be for a home or car. For example, it doesn't give them access to all homes and cars. And besides if anyone believes Iphones are actually secure....ive got some prime desert real estate to sell you. This is a PR move by cRook to make people believe iphones are secure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fishlove73 View Post
    That's the thing this issue isn't about privacy or back doors...Tim cRook is ignoring a warrant for One phone.
    Brace yourself for the argument of "If they do it for this one phone, then where does it stop?"

    I don't know, as needed in other criminal investigations, just like search warrants for homes and businesses?

  9. #39
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    A lot of responses here seem to ignore what has already gone down. The employer owned phone (the county in this case) failed to use Apple's system for such devices in the first place. Then they changed the Apple ID on the device. That pretty much wipes it. Have any of you ever done a hard reset? What you get is the welcome screen. The first thing it asks for is your Apple ID so it can restore from the last iCloud back up. Have you ever obtained an iPhone from a friend or relative because you lost yours? You cannot use it if it is still tied to their Apple ID. Once they remove it, it is pretty much wiped. I know, because I did this. I really wanted the music that was on my hand me down phone. But once removed from the old id, it was a blank state.

    As I said on the previous page, the county and the FBI ****ed up big time and now want Apple to bail them out.

    Isn't it interesting how much conservatives like to wail about freedom and at the same time are up into people's business. Sorry, my **** is none of your business. Even if it is, in my case, banal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    Maybe not, but again this isn't some remote app that someone can just use to get data on you. They still physically need your phone.

    So now you need a corrupt government employee to somehow steal your phone or discover your lost phone, then install a modified version of iOS, then run whatever machine or software they need to to try all every combination of every passcode possible until they break into your phone, just to get your browsing history, contacts and bank information.

    Seems a bit far fetched.

    You're more likely to drop your wallet and have your identity stolen that way. I can't believe how paranoid some of you people are.

    Plus Find my iPhone has a remote wipe feature. So if you lose your phone, find a computer or another apple device and erase your information.
    Far fetched, yes. But it's not in the realm of impossibility. Imagine your phone got lost or stolen. If a thief gets a hold of this ipsw firmware, then it's very possible to brute force into your phone, provided you use a PIN. Heck, the government can't even keep classified information like the Snowden leaks from being released to the public. Why does the government deserve such blind trust that it'll keep this firmware for this model phone and every other model phone it demands away from some whistleblower?

    FYI, I'm not worried just about the government snooping through my phone. I'm also worried about the government making a mistake (it's human nature) and inadvertently helping the bad guys like thieves break into your phone. Ask any cop, iPhones are highly sought after on the black market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MkVsTheWorld View Post
    Why does the government deserve such blind trust that it'll keep this firmware for this model phone and every other model phone it demands away from some whistleblower?
    Because as I understood it the government didn't get the firmware. The government brings Apple the phone and Apple does the tinkering for the government.

    Not to mention updates to iOS are being done all the time so if there was a leak and you as a diligent user kept your phone up to date, it would remain secure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    Because as I understood it the government didn't get the firmware. The government brings Apple the phone and Apple does the tinkering for the government.
    The court order is demanding the IPSW file (iOS image) now, which is a totally different ballgame.

    Specifically, United States Magistrate Judge Sheri Pym mandated that Apple provide the FBI a custom firmware file, known as an IPSW file, that would likely enable investigators to brute force the passcode lockout currently on the phone, which is running iOS 9.
    http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2...ooters-iphone/

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    Quote Originally Posted by jcalder View Post
    Brace yourself for the argument of "If they do it for this one phone, then where does it stop?"

    I don't know, as needed in other criminal investigations, just like search warrants for homes and businesses?
    This will force Apple to raise the bar so that this kind of firmware update attack no longer works - at least on the iPhone 7. My bet is that there is an engineering team working on it right now.

    Now that this kind attack is probable, I suspect people who care about their privacy will move to longer more complicated passcodes. I've been using 12 digits for a while. It was annoying for the first week or so, but with practice entering the passcode became very quick.

  14. #44
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    I notice Amnesty International also came out in support of Apple
    source: http://www.theverge.com/2016/2/18/11...mnesty-snowden

    Statement from Sherif Elsayed-Ali, Deputy Director of Global Issues at Amnesty International:

    "Apple is right to fight back in this case: the FBI's request, which would in practice require Apple to rewrite its operating system to weaken security protections, would set a very dangerous precedent. Such backdoors undermine everyone's security and threaten our right to privacy. Undermining mobile security not only puts our data at risk of being stolen by criminals, but also threatens privacy and freedom of expression at a time when [it] is a clear lack of checks and balances that prevent[s] authorities from abusing surveillance powers."

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    Quote Originally Posted by mch View Post
    This will force Apple to raise the bar so that this kind of firmware update attack no longer works - at least on the iPhone 7. My bet is that there is an engineering team working on it right now.

    Now that this kind attack is probable, I suspect people who care about their privacy will move to longer more complicated passcodes. I've been using 12 digits for a while. It was annoying for the first week or so, but with practice entering the passcode became very quick.
    What about finger print scanner?


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