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Thread: FBI Demands iPhone Backdoor from Apple

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by tgeekb View Post
    What about finger print scanner?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    It can help but there are still times, such as after rebooting the phone, that you have to enter the code.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogelijk View Post
    It can help but there are still times, such as after rebooting the phone, that you have to enter the code.
    That's true, i forgot. I use a 10 digit code.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by tgeekb View Post
    What about finger print scanner?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That's a grey area at the moment too. There's a relatively recent court ruling that states that law enforcement can compel you to unlock a phone equipped with biometrics (if enabled). That's because the government can already get a fingerprint from you for an arrest. Therefore, they can demand a "fingerprint" to unlock your phone. A PIN or password are different though and is much more challenging to get from you. Here's a more thorough explanation about it:

    http://jolt.law.harvard.edu/digest/t...ed-smartphones
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    Quote Originally Posted by gdart View Post
    A lot of responses here seem to ignore what has already gone down. The employer owned phone (the county in this case) failed to use Apple's system for such devices in the first place. Then they changed the Apple ID on the device. That pretty much wipes it. Have any of you ever done a hard reset? What you get is the welcome screen. The first thing it asks for is your Apple ID so it can restore from the last iCloud back up. Have you ever obtained an iPhone from a friend or relative because you lost yours? You cannot use it if it is still tied to their Apple ID. Once they remove it, it is pretty much wiped. I know, because I did this. I really wanted the music that was on my hand me down phone. But once removed from the old id, it was a blank state.

    As I said on the previous page, the county and the FBI ****ed up big time and now want Apple to bail them out.

    Isn't it interesting how much conservatives like to wail about freedom and at the same time are up into people's business. Sorry, my **** is none of your business. Even if it is, in my case, banal.
    This is exactly it. Why is the FBI pursuing Apple about this? The FBI should be pursuing the county. The county should have been using Apple Configurator software to administer the iPhone and is ultimately responsible for the enterprise of the phone, not Apple. Apple didn't put a password on the phone. The password should have been created and administered by the county.
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    Well, the plot thickens. It seems Apple was telling the truth and the FBI "Fibbed" about the password change request.

    "Apple executives face a court order to help create what the company calls a “backdoor” to the phone. [Update: San Bernardino County officials said the FBI had requested the Apple ID password reset of Syed Farook’s phone, which the FBI acknowledged Saturday night.] "

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnpaczkows...ust#.ogeyZNvZQ


    "A senior Apple engineer countered early Sunday morning that the FBI’s statement acknowledged that their changing the password prevented the auto backup and that such backups have value. As such, the engineer continued, this closed an avenue from which the FBI might otherwise have been able to gather information.

    Had that password not been changed, the Apple executives said Friday, the government might not have needed to demand the company create a “backdoor” to access the iPhone used by Farook, who died in a shootout with law enforcement after the attack. Following up on a court order that had been granted earlier in the week, the Department of Justice filed a motion to compel the company to create the “backdoor” earlier Friday."

    The FBI has been pursuing a backdoor on encrypted phones for over a year. I suspect they had no problem authorizing the reset of the iCloud password, since it made their case stronger for the Court to order Apple to assist.

    Another valid reason for Apple to decline to assist is the future requests or Court Orders for the very same service. They are already lining up to be next. The Manhattan District Attorney has put in his bid, claiming to have 175 phones he needs unlocked.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/maryanngeorg...-be#.dh9woWLob

    A quote I posted earlier somehow got deleted was from the late Supreme Court Justice Scalia.

    "The Constitution sometimes insulates the criminality of a few in order to protect the privacy of us all"

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    Quote Originally Posted by daleraver View Post
    Well, the plot thickens. It seems Apple was telling the truth and the FBI "Fibbed" about the password change request.

    "Apple executives face a court order to help create what the company calls a “backdoor” to the phone. [Update: San Bernardino County officials said the FBI had requested the Apple ID password reset of Syed Farook’s phone, which the FBI acknowledged Saturday night.] "

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/johnpaczkows...ust#.ogeyZNvZQ


    "A senior Apple engineer countered early Sunday morning that the FBI’s statement acknowledged that their changing the password prevented the auto backup and that such backups have value. As such, the engineer continued, this closed an avenue from which the FBI might otherwise have been able to gather information.

    Had that password not been changed, the Apple executives said Friday, the government might not have needed to demand the company create a “backdoor” to access the iPhone used by Farook, who died in a shootout with law enforcement after the attack. Following up on a court order that had been granted earlier in the week, the Department of Justice filed a motion to compel the company to create the “backdoor” earlier Friday."

    The FBI has been pursuing a backdoor on encrypted phones for over a year. I suspect they had no problem authorizing the reset of the iCloud password, since it made their case stronger for the Court to order Apple to assist.

    Another valid reason for Apple to decline to assist is the future requests or Court Orders for the very same service. They are already lining up to be next. The Manhattan District Attorney has put in his bid, claiming to have 175 phones he needs unlocked.

    http://www.buzzfeed.com/maryanngeorg...-be#.dh9woWLob

    A quote I posted earlier somehow got deleted was from the late Supreme Court Justice Scalia.

    "The Constitution sometimes insulates the criminality of a few in order to protect the privacy of us all"
    Thank you for this post contribution.

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    [QUOTE=daleraver;16463285]


    "A senior Apple engineer countered early Sunday morning that the FBI’s statement acknowledged that their changing the password prevented the auto backup and that such backups have value. As such, the engineer continued, this closed an avenue from which the FBI might otherwise have been able to gather information.

    Had that password not been changed, the Apple executives said Friday, the government might not have needed to demand the company create a “backdoor” to access the iPhone used by Farook, who died in a shootout with law enforcement after the attack.

    I'm not clear on, or am missing something.

    I have an iPhone, but I can't change any passwords without first entering the old one.

    What password was changed?

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    The password for the iCloud backup. The phone could have backed up content when it was brought within range of a recognized WiFi network to upload to the iCloud server. From that Apple should have been able to retrieve whatever data was set to back up to the cloud. By changing the password that possibility was eliminated. You may wonder, why would they request the password be changed?

    It is not a huge assumption that the FBI knew it would prevent the backup, and may have believed that without that information, they had a stronger case for a Court Order for Apple to create the software they want as an iPhone backdoor. If the iCloud backup was only company business, then there would be no compelling need to unlock the phone. All speculation, but logical.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daleraver View Post
    The password for the iCloud backup. The phone could have backed up content when it was brought within range of a recognized WiFi network to upload to the iCloud server. From that Apple should have been able to retrieve whatever data was set to back up to the cloud. By changing the password that possibility was eliminated. You may wonder, why would they request the password be changed?

    It is not a huge assumption that the FBI knew it would prevent the backup, and may have believed that without that information, they had a stronger case for a Court Order for Apple to create the software they want as an iPhone backdoor. If the iCloud backup was only company business, then there would be no compelling need to unlock the phone. All speculation, but logical.
    The FBI's motivation undoubtedly has little to do with this particular phone, given that the data on that phone could be obtained using a high end forensics lab (offline attack against an iPhone 5c should be pretty straight forward). You can draw your own conclusions about motivations, but it has nothing to do with that particular iPhone 5c.

    We live in an odd world where a private corporate entity ends up defending our privacy against our elected government. Apple stands to profit from a reputation as a reasonably secure device. Law enforcement wants a way to execute court orders against arbitrary iphones without going to much trouble and expense.
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    mch,

    I agree with your conclusions, but am not sure I understand your comment about a lab obtaining the iPhone data.

    Apple does stand to profit if they prevail, however they also stand to lose a great deal if forced to perform. I seriously doubt that the Court Order of this lower Court would stand up upon appeal, and Apple will certainly appeal what seems to be an unconstitutional demand. As a result of an Appeal, this could spend years in court, ala Apple vs. Samsung before a final conclusion.

    Mr. Comey, the Director of the FBI is on record many times demanding that tech firms "Backdoor" their systems for law enforcement. They've been using "StingRay" for quite a while now, and that tech has trickled down to local departments, so it shouldn't take long for every Mayberry dept. to get the Apple hack also. His plea about "Only One Phone" is an end run. Once Apple performs, every muni court in the country will issue the same demand, with case law behind it.

    The Court did give Apple an out however, by allowing Apple to decline if it is an "Unreasonable Burden" to assist. They need to apply this exemption in their reply.

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    FBI Demands iPhone Backdoor from Apple

    A forensics lab could clone the flash/hardware key of the 5c (from the chips) and apply brute force to decrypt.

    This is not a simple task. It certainly doesn't scale to multiple devices because of complexity/cost. It would also carry some risk of destroying the data (chip decapping)

    http://abcnews.go.com/US/san-bernard...ry?id=37065676
    https://www.blackhat.com/docs/us-15/...rt-Card-wp.pdf - gives some idea about the techniques.

    also see the Twitter conversation around this tweet from people who know far more about this than I do.
    https://mobile.twitter.com/thegrugq/...99546917634048
    In particular, @nedos is a researcher (PhD) in this area.
    Last edited by mch; 02-22-2016 at 09:33 AM.

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    Great reading, thanks for the links. Very interesting what Snowden has to say about this.

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    This is a smokescreen lie on the part of Tim cRook. Prism, NSA, FBI have had a backdoor to Icloud for quite some time. Think about it, Apple gives away privacy to App developers like free Candy. If any of those agencies really wanted in all they would have to do is pay a developer...boom, there's contacts, location and GPS right there in real time.

    Use WhatsApp? There goes all your info. Who needs a street address when they can have GPS of you in real time and all of your contacts... The same people who are suddenly "advocating " privacy are the same companies selling your data mined info. And now all of a sudden Apple is concerned about privacy? It's a ploy, capitalizing on a bad event to sell Iphones. Giving people the illusion they are private. What a dirty company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    If these people were communicating with other terrorists who are planning a dirty bomb attact on NYC, the FBI misses it because Apple prevails, and a million people are killed, that's just the price of freedom, folks. Your privacy is far more important in the end than all those lives.
    Blahahaha. Someone still believes the FBI is trying to save lives. How 1980's is that, just saying...
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    FBI doesn't need access to the files on your phone silly

    Quote Originally Posted by mike21222 View Post
    Blahahaha. Someone still believes the FBI is trying to save lives. How 1980's is that, just saying...
    The FBI doesn't need access to the files you have manually copied. It already has access to all the tracking data it wants and anything you have downloaded from the web, EVER. If they cared about you, they could track your every step, monitor your every call, voice and data and likely meet you at the store on your way home from work or school. Why would they also need the data on your phone? Everyone is in such a hurry to listen to big brother tell them they want and need their cooperation in order to keep them safe. Safe indeed... Meanwhile our freedoms are being whittled to next to nothing... So sad...

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