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Thread: Mobilicity - Chatr Roaming

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by shadowlord View Post
    If Rogers' billing system knows when you are are roaming or not (in order to charge roaming fees) then they can link the system to notify you.
    Another FAQ.

    Billing is an entirely separate system to device-tower registration and the device roaming indicator.

    --
    Is anyone aware of a provider with artificial zones on one native network that can reliably and immediately trigger the device 'R' roaming indicator upon registration to a native tower?

    --
    I'm not defending, just trying to relieve some of the angst.

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    (...)

    We wouldn't get the cheap rates and data without the zones and artificial roaming.
    Those two things ... and the throttling to a maximum of 3 Mbps!
    TELUS: Unlimited Canada Talk & Text, 15+10 GB Data
    Koodo: Unlimited Canada Talk, World Text, 8+9 GB Data
    AT&T: Unlimited talk & text in and between the U.S., Canada, & Mexico, 8+17 GB data

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    The 'R' roaming indicator is not something scripted.

    It's automatically generated when the device MNC does not match the tower MNC

    With artificial roaming we can't depend on the MNC mismatch to trigger the indicator.
    We are always on the native network.

    We wouldn't get the cheap rates and data without the zones and artificial roaming.
    Interestingly, they just started to hide the roaming indicator in September of this year (this is not a new thing only for Mobi converted customers but all Chatr users as well). So it surely worked fine all those years before.

    And Chatr has always been using their zones so I'm guessing that's your example of a provider with artificial roaming. One more actually, with certain Fido plans, you get extended coverage areas. If you don't have that add-on/extra, places like Whitehorse will be roaming for you. But if you do have the extended coverage, it acts like your home network and you see no difference when you're there. This is the case the last time I was there early in the year at least.

    Edit: I really don't think it's difficult for them to implement proper zoning with roaming indication though (regardless what they had in place previously). I don't know much about the actual tech, but isn't it just a matter of "naming" two types of towers and one set of SIMs that can connect to both as home (Rogers/Fido), and one set of SIMs that can only connect to one as home (Chatr)? I would be disappointed if such a high-tech field can't even implement something like this.

  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by aleunge View Post
    Edit: I really don't think it's difficult for them to implement proper zoning with roaming indication though (regardless what they had in place previously). I don't know much about the actual tech, but isn't it just a matter of "naming" two types of towers and one set of SIMs that can connect to both as home (Rogers/Fido), and one set of SIMs that can only connect to one as home (Chatr)? I would be disappointed if such a high-tech field can't even implement something like this.
    As I've said before, it isn't hard at all now that they own the Mobi MNC. The issue is that they applied the Rogers MNC to Chatr so the phone doesn't know if you're roaming or not. If they just applied the mobi MNC to all chatr sims, then they could easily get the roaming indicator working properly.
    Bell SK+fongo:
    $85 Unlimited NA, NA text, US Roaming, 15GB

  5. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruvous View Post
    As I've said before, it isn't hard at all now that they own the Mobi MNC. The issue is that they applied the Rogers MNC to Chatr so the phone doesn't know if you're roaming or not. If they just applied the mobi MNC to all chatr sims, then they could easily get the roaming indicator working properly.
    I have no idea what you're talking about with the MNC thing, to be honest. But it doesn't make any sense at all that there is even an issue. All Rogers has to do is treat all Mobi users as Chatr users on their network. The network sees Mobi users and Chatr users as the same. That's it. The roaming indicator worked fine for Chatr users before September and it can work the exact same for Mobi users after the conversion.

    Heck, even if there's some strange unexplained reason for hardware/system changes, telling Mobi users to go in to swap their SIMs for a Chatr SIM would make more sense than changing inherently how things work for everybody in the network. It's a much larger system wide change they're implementing (and a first of its kind!) that wouldn't make any business sense unless, of course, they're somehow gaining from this. It's completely not believable that they had to drop the "R" as a last resort to some technology restriction.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by aleunge View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about with the MNC thing, to be honest. But it doesn't make any sense at all that there is even an issue. All Rogers has to do is treat all Mobi users as Chatr users on their network. The network sees Mobi users and Chatr users as the same. That's it. The roaming indicator worked fine for Chatr users before September and it can work the exact same for Mobi users after the conversion.

    Heck, even if there's some strange unexplained reason for hardware/system changes, telling Mobi users to go in to swap their SIMs for a Chatr SIM would make more sense than changing inherently how things work for everybody in the network. It's a much larger system wide change they're implementing (and a first of its kind!) that wouldn't make any business sense unless, of course, they're somehow gaining from this. It's completely not believable that they had to drop the "R" as a last resort to some technology restriction.
    I think you are slightly confused. The roaming indicator did not disappear for Chatr users in September. They didn't have it for a while. It disappeared for us because we were moved from our network to theirs, which didn't have it. I'm not sure if they ever had the roaming indicator, but I believe that if they did, they lost it when they got rid of the zones a couple of years ago.

    Chatr started as a zone-based carrier to "compete" with the new entrants, which were all zone-based. But I believe that after a couple of years, they got rid of the zones, only to introduce them again very close to this Mobilicity acquisition (and only for plans that included data).

    That being said, I do agree that there is no reason not to show when a user is roaming, other than to try to get more money from us. And while I understand the explanation fruvous provided (basically, the phones "see" only one network, whether in or out of zone, it being the same for Chatr (in) or Rogers (out)), this is only because they decided to do it that way, not because it's not technically feasible to make the distinction.

  7. #82
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    One thing needs to be asked , if chatr know which tower they want in home network and other hand which tower to charge roaming then where is the problem not letting customer know via text that now customer is roaming in there own customized network.

    These are all excuses.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by abelitin View Post
    (...)

    Chatr started as a zone-based carrier to "compete" with the new entrants, which were all zone-based. But I believe that after a couple of years, they got rid of the zones, only to introduce them again very close to this Mobilicity acquisition (and only for plans that included data).

    (...)
    Chatr continues to offer their base $20/month "Local Talk Plan (In-Zone)" (Unlimited Local Talk & 25˘/Outgoing Text). It is not possible to add data to this plan.

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by aleunge View Post
    I have no idea what you're talking about with the MNC thing, to be honest. But it doesn't make any sense at all that there is even an issue. All Rogers has to do is treat all Mobi users as Chatr users on their network. The network sees Mobi users and Chatr users as the same. That's it. The roaming indicator worked fine for Chatr users before September and it can work the exact same for Mobi users after the conversion.

    Heck, even if there's some strange unexplained reason for hardware/system changes, telling Mobi users to go in to swap their SIMs for a Chatr SIM would make more sense than changing inherently how things work for everybody in the network. It's a much larger system wide change they're implementing (and a first of its kind!) that wouldn't make any business sense unless, of course, they're somehow gaining from this. It's completely not believable that they had to drop the "R" as a last resort to some technology restriction.
    The "R" indicator is dictated by the phone itself and not the network. If there is an MNC mismatch, it will display "R", if not, it won't. As such, you will never get it with Chatr with the way it's set up today.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by canadian_kool View Post
    Well, I have taken it out-of-zone, and they don't have the roaming indicator to enable automatic data disconnection, but they do send you an SMS to inform you that you are using services out of zone and PPU now applies.

    In theory, if you quickly read the SMS and manually disable data, you only spend a few minutes wasting credit on inadvertent data roaming.

    Not great, but better than nothing I guess
    Quote Originally Posted by channi_loveable View Post
    One thing needs to be asked , if chatr know which tower they want in home network and other hand which tower to charge roaming then where is the problem not letting customer know via text that now customer is roaming in there own customized network.

    These are all excuses.....
    @channi_loveable, I agree with you. I even asked earlier why it isn't technically possible for Rogers/Chatr to know if you're connected to a home or away cell tower based on its physical location, but I never got an answer.

    As quoted above, @canadian_kool already let us know that Chatr will send you an SMS after you have started to roam, but have already possibly started paying for data (background and foreground).

    Since they can send us an SMS when they know we're roaming, they obviously know we're roaming.

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by The_Night_Owl View Post
    @channi_loveable, I agree with you. I even asked earlier why it isn't technically possible for Rogers/Chatr to know if you're connected to a home or away cell tower based on its physical location, but I never got an answer.

    As quoted above, @canadian_kool already let us know that Chatr will send you an SMS after you have started to roam, but have already possibly started paying for data (background and foreground).

    Since they can send us an SMS when they know we're roaming, they obviously know we're roaming.
    SMS and the indicator on your phone are different systems.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by fruvous View Post
    SMS and the indicator on your phone are different systems.
    Indeed. But if Rogers can turn on one, they can turn on the other. They just don't want to.

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by abelitin View Post
    I think you are slightly confused. The roaming indicator did not disappear for Chatr users in September. They didn't have it for a while. It disappeared for us because we were moved from our network to theirs, which didn't have it. I'm not sure if they ever had the roaming indicator, but I believe that if they did, they lost it when they got rid of the zones a couple of years ago.

    Chatr started as a zone-based carrier to "compete" with the new entrants, which were all zone-based. But I believe that after a couple of years, they got rid of the zones, only to introduce them again very close to this Mobilicity acquisition (and only for plans that included data).

    That being said, I do agree that there is no reason not to show when a user is roaming, other than to try to get more money from us. And while I understand the explanation fruvous provided (basically, the phones "see" only one network, whether in or out of zone, it being the same for Chatr (in) or Rogers (out)), this is only because they decided to do it that way, not because it's not technically feasible to make the distinction.
    You're right! I was confused with the roaming thing for existing Chatr users. They never did have it so thanks for that. However, they actually still do have "zones" (they just at one point changed the name pretty much) and pay per use charges apply for those out of coverage areas like how we're about to. Chatr users have always had to risk roaming charges when picking up calls or using data, or else would have to dial that number first.

    Anyway, my main point is that I'm certain they don't have to do things this way. And like you said, it's absolutely only to get more roaming charges from customers... so even though I've got a bargain plan now by grandfathering a Mobi plan, I'll still be on the lookout to go elsewhere.

  14. #89
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    Most carriers have quite a generous buffer though
    So even if you get picked up on the next tower they don't always bill for it

    Solo used to be like that back in the day

  15. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by pjw918 View Post
    Another FAQ.

    Is anyone aware of a provider with artificial zones on one native network that can reliably and immediately trigger the device 'R' roaming indicator upon registration to a native tower?
    It is not exactly the same thing (or is it?) but if Wind is capable of cherry-picking towers for roaming or blocking roaming, why can't Rogers/Chatr handle zones and the "R"? As a (former) Wind subscriber, I can attest to the flawless roaming on Vancouver Island (no Wind signal) and the flawed implementation when I am in Vancouver with a weak Wind signal. Phones cannot connect for roaming data or dialing when there is a Wind signal, even if that signal is too weak to be useable. (That is in part why we left... if roaming on the fringes of the Home zone were allowed, our "Everywhere 45" would have given us coverage instead of repeated disconnects and uncompleted calls.)

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