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Thread: VoLTE hand-offs between LTEiRA and Native Verizon

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    And that's why I was asking. I could see some carriers with LRA not using B13 but using their own B12 licenses that they shaved off of USCC or T-Mobile (or got them somewhere else, maybe even Verizon).

    We got sidetracked a bit with the notion that rural roaming devices might also not have E911 access to T-Mobile/USCC in a couple years, but these are entangled issues that Verizon could easily solve... by simply not neutering B12 from their devices in the first place.

    It will be interesting to see when the Moto Z Droid has its first baseband rooting, and people go into QPST and turn B12 on. As we've seen from past Motorola releases, this is normally a QPST configuration setting - nothing more.
    I don't think so. Most LRA carriers have had LTE for years now with b13. B12 isn't very old and these smaller carriers are usually a little slower than the major carriers at deploying new spectrum.

    What I think will happen in the future is when these LRA carriers start deploying their own spectrum, (b2,b4,b5,b12), their customers devices will prefer this spectrum and will basically leave b13 for Verizon customers in the area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew110 View Post
    I don't think so. Most LRA carriers have had LTE for years now with b13. B12 isn't very old and these smaller carriers are usually a little slower than the major carriers at deploying new spectrum.

    What I think will happen in the future is when these LRA carriers start deploying their own spectrum, (b2,b4,b5,b12), their customers devices will prefer this spectrum and will basically leave b13 for Verizon customers in the area.
    I think that's realistic. But it also is a justification to get rid of the B12 ban. Verizon customers are now second-class on LRAs because they can't CA on B12, and there's still a lingering E911 concern (fringe area, out of B13 coverage, but still in B12 coverage).

    Judging by my relationship with Verizon these days, I don't think I'll get the chance to raise it with them any time soon... but it was helpful to piece together in case I do. I think it's just petty, especially in the era of DPP (sans contracts) to neuter these devices at the baseband/firmware/radio configuration level to deny them B12.
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    VoLTE hand-offs between LTEiRA and Native Verizon

    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    I think that's realistic. But it also is a justification to get rid of the B12 ban. Verizon customers are now second-class on LRAs because they can't CA on B12, and there's still a lingering E911 concern (fringe area, out of B13 coverage, but still in B12 coverage).

    Judging by my relationship with Verizon these days, I don't think I'll get the chance to raise it with them any time soon... but it was helpful to piece together in case I do. I think it's just petty, especially in the era of DPP (sans contracts) to neuter these devices at the baseband/firmware/radio configuration level to deny them B12.
    I'm not sure how CA will work in these areas. Because really, they will be two different networks.

    As far as I can tell there is absolutely no difference between b13 in an LRA area and native Verizon area. The LRAs even use Verizon's APN for LTE.

    When the LRA carriers have their own LTE network on their own spectrum, it will be 100% their network with no Verizon core.

    I'm thinking there won't be CA for Verizon customers in these areas unless the LRA carrier also deployed Verizon's b4 spectrum as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by andrew110 View Post
    I'm not sure many of these areas exist. Are there any small CDMA carriers that haven't deployed Verizon's b13? I don't know of any.

    If there were, Verizon could always build out in these areas with b13 sites.
    Verizon could build out Band 13, but the explicit purpose of the LTEiRA program was that since Verizon had not built ANY infrastructure in those local carrier's service areas and had NO intention of building anything, therefore since they owned the nationwide Band 13 license, they leased the use of that spectrum to the local carrier in return for fully reciprocal "roaming" for both Verizon' and the local carrier' customers. Win-win for all concerned. The local carrier could utilize their own spectrum to add capacity to the system or use it for fixed wireless, whatever they wanted, while utilizing the Band 13 and Verizon's AWS that they have also allowed the local carriers to lease if they want for carrier aggregation and extra capacity.

    Band 12 just doesn't come up much in discussions related to the LTEiRA program. That's more of a T-Mobile and AT&T realm since they have both been very active in acquiring and deploying that spectrum. Here in Pioneer Cellular's LTEiRA service area, all the Band 12 is owned by USCC, actually King Street, and they are just sitting on it, they have never deployed any of it, it will never be of use to anyone, ever, it seems. T-Mobile is stuck with their high-frequency/low-reach Band 2 and AWS they own unless they can get 600 Mhz spectrum in the current auction, and AT&T isn't in much better shape. Of course, the situation is different for both those carriers in other parts of the country, but Band 12 currently isn't much of a factor in LTEiRA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ggore View Post
    Verizon could build out Band 13, but the explicit purpose of the LTEiRA program was that since Verizon had not built ANY infrastructure in those local carrier's service areas and had NO intention of building anything, therefore since they owned the nationwide Band 13 license, they leased the use of that spectrum to the local carrier in return for fully reciprocal "roaming" for both Verizon' and the local carrier' customers. Win-win for all concerned. The local carrier could utilize their own spectrum to add capacity to the system or use it for fixed wireless, whatever they wanted, while utilizing the Band 13 and Verizon's AWS that they have also allowed the local carriers to lease if they want for carrier aggregation and extra capacity.

    Band 12 just doesn't come up much in discussions related to the LTEiRA program. That's more of a T-Mobile and AT&T realm since they have both been very active in acquiring and deploying that spectrum. Here in Pioneer Cellular's LTEiRA service area, all the Band 12 is owned by USCC, actually King Street, and they are just sitting on it, they have never deployed any of it, it will never be of use to anyone, ever, it seems. T-Mobile is stuck with their high-frequency/low-reach Band 2 and AWS they own unless they can get 600 Mhz spectrum in the current auction, and AT&T isn't in much better shape. Of course, the situation is different for both those carriers in other parts of the country, but Band 12 currently isn't much of a factor in LTEiRA.
    Right that's why I explicitly said small CDMA carriers and not LRA carriers.

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    I’m just popping in to find out if anything has changed since 2017. Yes I know it’s an old thread but I don’t wanna have to create a redundant thread since this one already exists.

    I know that Verizon now indicates Extended Network when in a LTEiRA market regardless of VoLTE being enabled or not. I know that according to https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...0#post17133930 and https://www.howardforums.com/showthr...-VoLTE-Devices and that VoLTE works when on those LTEiRA markets as a Verizon customer.
    Last edited by DebiLee; 06-09-2020 at 05:28 PM.

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    I haven’t seen issues with calls dropping in areas that are at the edge of the LTEiRA provider.

    I haven’t gone way out of my way to test this issue thoroughly though. It’s kind of rare for me to start a call on the VZ network then keep talking all the way to the LTEiRA area or vice-versa.

    I can tell you though from frequently visiting Beggs, OK and Muskogee, OK (both of which cross the coverage border areas of VZ and LTEiRA provider Cross Telephone), I haven’t noticed an issue.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Brobot View Post
    I haven’t seen issues with calls dropping in areas that are at the edge of the LTEiRA provider.

    I haven’t gone way out of my way to test this issue thoroughly though. It’s kind of rare for me to start a call on the VZ network then keep talking all the way to the LTEiRA area or vice-versa.

    I can tell you though from frequently visiting Beggs, OK and Muskogee, OK (both of which cross the coverage border areas of VZ and LTEiRA provider Cross Telephone), I haven’t noticed an issue.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    That’s super awesome. Thanks for your response.

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