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Thread: T-Mobile live with 600 MHz in 586 cities and towns!!

  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick22 View Post
    Will Dallas see any improvements for building penetration anytime soon? Personally that’s my main complaint with T-Mobile.
    I don't think we're able to say. T-Mobile already has low-band (700 MHz) in Dallas. In theory, you should be getting good indoor service. However, if T-Mobile continues to employ the same conservative network engineering philosophy with 600 MHz that they have with their other bands, it's doubtful that a great improvement will be seen in indoor service.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I don't think we're able to say. T-Mobile already has low-band (700 MHz) in Dallas. In theory, you should be getting good indoor service. However, if T-Mobile continues to employ the same conservative network engineering philosophy with 600 MHz that they have with their other bands, it's doubtful that a great improvement will be seen in indoor service.
    Small Cells inside building is the only hope for Dallas in the near future. Phones with 4x4 MIMO would help a lot for building penetration. T-Mobile has band 71 deployed in Gainesville, TX that is 62 miles NNW from Dallas. However, T-Mobile only owns 10x10 Mhz of Band 71 for now in Dallas Metro PEA and it has lots of TV Channel interference. Dallas TV channels 41, 42, 44 and 47 in Fort Worth are scheduled for Phase 3 repack.

    T-Mobile's 5x5 Mhz of Band 12 ( 700Mhz) is just too narrow for Dallas' population so they have to tilt down the Band 12 antennas so they can put more Band 12 towers in the general area.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Small Cells inside building is the only hope for Dallas in the near future. Phones with 4x4 MIMO would help a lot for building penetration. T-Mobile has band 71 deployed in Gainesville, TX that is 62 miles NNW from Dallas. However, T-Mobile only owns 10x10 Mhz of Band 71 for now in Dallas Metro PEA and it has lots of TV Channel interference. Dallas TV channels 41, 42, 44 and 47 in Fort Worth are scheduled for Phase 3 repack.

    T-Mobile's 5x5 Mhz of Band 12 ( 700Mhz) is just too narrow for Dallas' population so they have to tilt down the Band 12 antennas so they can put more Band 12 towers in the general area.
    Wow, you guys are way over my head with this stuff! Which phone on T-mobile would be best for penetrating buildings then? My iphone 7+ isn't the greatest.

    thanks

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Small Cells inside building is the only hope for Dallas in the near future. .....
    T-Mobile's 5x5 Mhz of Band 12 ( 700Mhz) is just too narrow for Dallas' population so they have to tilt down the Band 12 antennas so they can put more Band 12 towers in the general area.
    I agree about the small cells as a solution to service issues inside some buildings, like big box stores, etc. T-Mobile has good mid-band holdings in Dallas: 50 MHz of AWS and 40 of PCS. There is no spectrum shortage, requiring they use of 700 MHz for capacity. They don't have to use low power and large tilt angles on their 700 MHz antennas; they just do.

    Quote Originally Posted by maverick22 View Post
    Wow, you guys are way over my head with this stuff! Which phone on T-mobile would be best for penetrating buildings then? My iphone 7+ isn't the greatest....
    When it comes to signal reception, iPhones seem to have more complaints than others. I don't know why, that may just be anecdotal, based on there being more iPhones than other brands. I might give a higher grade Samsung at try but you want to make sure that whatever phone you get has band-71, as it will be very important in the near future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by maverick22 View Post
    Wow, you guys are way over my head with this stuff! Which phone on T-mobile would be best for penetrating buildings then? My iphone 7+ isn't the greatest.

    thanks
    Samsung's Galaxy S8 was one of the first to support Gigabit speeds, notably through 4x4 MU-MIMO. MIMO stands for Multiple Input Multiple Output and uses 4x4 Antennas. MU-MINO is a improvement over SU-MIMO. MU-MIMO stands for multi-user multiple input and multiple output. It builds on single-user MIMO (SU-MIMO), which was introduced close to a decade ago with the 802.11n standard.

    The reason why more antennas work better for building penetration is a feature called beam forming and more antennas improve the signal to noise ratio. MU-MIMO uses what's known as 'beamforming,' a separate feature of 802.11ac that directs signals toward the intended wireless device(s) instead of randomly in all directions. MIMO main feature is 4 separate parallel connections to the cell towers that increase speed. Apple is rumored to support 4x4 MIMO in their next phone in 2018.


    2018 iPhone models to boast enhanced LTE transmission, support 4x4 MIMO

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    Thanks for the above info! Good to know about Samsung possibly being a little better with penetrating, and that Apple will improve in '18!

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    I’ll just throw this out there, 4X4 MIMO does not work on the bands you would find in poor signal area (B12, and B71), so 4X4 MIMO doesn’t help in extremely poor signal conditions.

    What it does do is help improve speeds in B4, B2, and B66 areas where signal still exists but it’s weak.

    I’ve been able to get 100Mbps down in an urban area where an iPhone was only getting 40Mbps.

    I’ve found that in areas where I am teetering between 1 bar and no service, my iPhone X and Galaxy S8 Active perform EXACTLY the same. No significant difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I agree about the small cells as a solution to service issues inside some buildings, like big box stores, etc. T-Mobile has good mid-band holdings in Dallas: 50 MHz of AWS and 40 of PCS. There is no spectrum shortage, requiring they use of 700 MHz for capacity. They don't have to use low power and large tilt angles on their 700 MHz antennas; they just do.
    Do you think they use low power / low tilt methods because they have such a small 5x5 slice of Band 12 and don't want it to get overloaded in areas where Band 2/4/66 will suffice?

    I personally can't wait to see the full power/capcity of Band 71 in use. From what I've read it's not being used to its fullest at the moment and some of it is being reserved for 5G.
    “The Internet wasn’t meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so it’s insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead — it’s a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text.” John Legere 1/5/2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    ....I personally can't wait to see the full power/capcity of Band 71 in use. From what I've read it's not being used to its fullest at the moment and some of it is being reserved for 5G.
    That would be silly. All their new radios can be reconfigured remotely. What's possible is that some blocks of the licenses in an area are restricted by TV stations.

  10. #115
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    Wichita, KS is just wall to wall 600 Mhz now. I was looking at it with Cellmapper with the coverage zones but this map shows it better.

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    .... Wichita, a major metro area where 6 million+ need coverage.. Good going, T-Mobile!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CircuitSwitched View Post
    I’ll just throw this out there, 4X4 MIMO does not work on the bands you would find in poor signal area (B12, and B71), so 4X4 MIMO doesn’t help in extremely poor signal conditions.

    What it does do is help improve speeds in B4, B2, and B66 areas where signal still exists but it’s weak.

    I’ve been able to get 100Mbps down in an urban area where an iPhone was only getting 40Mbps.

    I’ve found that in areas where I am teetering between 1 bar and no service, my iPhone X and Galaxy S8 Active perform EXACTLY the same. No significant difference.
    Yes, 4x4 does give you better reception. Drop calls mainly occurs when the more power signal of the cell tower can't communicate with the weaker signal power of the cell phone. The four connections from the cell phone to the tower does extend the signal area.



    Following are the benefits or advantages of MIMO:

    ➨The higher data rate can be achieved with the help of multiple antennas and SM (Spatial Multiplexing) technique. This helps in achieving higher downlink and uplink throughput.
    It helps in achieving reduction in BER (Bit Error Rate) due to application of advanced signal processing algorithms on the received data symbols by multiple antennas.
    The techniques such as STBC (Space Time Block Coding) and BF (Beamforming) when employed in MIMO system helps in achieving extension of cell coverage.
    MIMO based system minimize fading effects seen by the information traveling from transmit to receive end. This is due to various diversity techniques such as time, frequency and space.
    ➨There is lower susceptibility of tapping by unauthorized persons due to multiple antennas and algorithms.
    ➨The systems with MIMO offers high QoS (Quality of Service) with increased spectral efficiency and data rates.
    ➨The wide coverage supported by MIMO system helps in supporting large number of subscribers per cell.

    http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Term...s-of-MIMO.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    Do you think they use low power / low tilt methods because they have such a small 5x5 slice of Band 12 and don't want it to get overloaded in areas where Band 2/4/66 will suffice?

    I personally can't wait to see the full power/capcity of Band 71 in use. From what I've read it's not being used to its fullest at the moment and some of it is being reserved for 5G.
    T-Mobile uses low tilt with Band 12 to reduce the distances of the signal since 5x5 bandwidth would be saturated and worthless with too many phones connected. So the low tilt allows them to place another Band 12 tower in that high population areas that separates the customers. Two Band 12 tower adds extra backhaul and reduces customer connections.



    Most areas that are clear from TV interferences doesn't have a population that needs 20x20 or 25x25 Band 71 service. Especially now when there are only two very expensive cell phones that supports Band 71. AT&T claims it will have 5G service by the end of the year in a few cities. T-Mobile is smart to save some of their unused Band 71 spectrum for 5G that will be a game changer with data performances. By early 2019 every flagship phone will have 5G ability or it won't sell well. Just like 600 Mhz adding 5G will take time before people own equipment that supports Band 71 and 5G. Till that time T-Mobile needs keep everyone happy as they build out their 5G nation wide network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    Yes, 4x4 does give you better reception. Drop calls mainly occurs when the more power signal of the cell tower can't communicate with the weaker signal power of the cell phone. The four connections from the cell phone to the tower does extend the signal area.



    Following are the benefits or advantages of MIMO:

    ➨The higher data rate can be achieved with the help of multiple antennas and SM (Spatial Multiplexing) technique. This helps in achieving higher downlink and uplink throughput.
    It helps in achieving reduction in BER (Bit Error Rate) due to application of advanced signal processing algorithms on the received data symbols by multiple antennas.
    The techniques such as STBC (Space Time Block Coding) and BF (Beamforming) when employed in MIMO system helps in achieving extension of cell coverage.
    MIMO based system minimize fading effects seen by the information traveling from transmit to receive end. This is due to various diversity techniques such as time, frequency and space.
    ➨There is lower susceptibility of tapping by unauthorized persons due to multiple antennas and algorithms.
    ➨The systems with MIMO offers high QoS (Quality of Service) with increased spectral efficiency and data rates.
    ➨The wide coverage supported by MIMO system helps in supporting large number of subscribers per cell.

    http://www.rfwireless-world.com/Term...s-of-MIMO.html
    I know that 4x4 MIMO helps give you better reception, but my point was that it doesn’t help on the coverage bands 12 & 71.

    I don’t think there is a phone that can do 4X4 MIMO in low bands yet.

    In fringe service areas, you still won’t get B4 typically, even with a 4x4 MIMO phone like the S8.

    Most of the time I’m in a fringe area my phones only receive B12, which my S8 Active does not do 4X4 MIMO on, therefore, the iPhone seems to get nearly equal reception in that case.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CircuitSwitched View Post
    I know that 4x4 MIMO helps give you better reception, but my point was that it doesn’t help on the coverage bands 12 & 71.

    I don’t think there is a phone that can do 4X4 MIMO in low bands yet.

    In fringe service areas, you still won’t get B4 typically, even with a 4x4 MIMO phone like the S8.

    Most of the time I’m in a fringe area my phones only receive B12, which my S8 Active does not do 4X4 MIMO on, therefore, the iPhone seems to get nearly equal reception in that case.
    That maybe the case of the 1st Gen B71 phones. Hope it can be software upgraded.

    " On December 20th, 2018, 3GPP released the first set of 5G NR specifications that include n71 band, DC 66+n71, DC 66+n257, DC 71+n71, and CA n71+n257 configurations. n257 is an NR TDD band in 26.5-29.5 GHz range."

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