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Thread: bought brand-new Verizon phone on Swappa, but ESN became blacklisted 8 months later

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    Uninformed person buys car from someones driveway. Is told the title will be in the mail.

    Car has kill switch turned on by lien holder. Uninformed buyer gets none of his money back.

    Not much different.
    Phones are sold with a kill switch when the phone is blacklisted by the carrier. The exact same concept as a kill switch in a car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaCL View Post
    I showed this thread to my friend... she jokingly said that divorced woman can't get married again because the ex-husband is still paying her off with monthly alimony...
    Please keep us updated on what happens with your friend, thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VerizonNoMore View Post
    You are a troll and a stupid troll at that.

    As another poster pointed out dumbarse, cars are registered by the DMV. The lienholder registers their lien with the DMV. As the other poster pointed out, THERE IS NO DMV FOR PHONES. So no, dumbarse, the car analogy is a huge fail.

    Clearly those points went right over your empty skull, lol!
    1 week ban for name calling & constant trolling in the VZW forum. I suggest you adjust your attitude as my patience with this type of behavior is short.
    Keep all PHONE discussion within the Verizon Phone Discussion sub forum. We will close/move threads without notice if you do not follow the the VZW forum rules. Report inappropriate posts by clicking on the red triangle in the upper right hand corner of any post, or the orange triangle in the bottom left for Premium members.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallmeJake View Post
    Phones are sold with a kill switch when the phone is blacklisted by the carrier. The exact same concept as a kill switch in a car.
    This is not the same thing.
    Also a phone blacklisted continues to work on WiFi just not on carrier networks.
    There is no kill switch in a phone unless activated by the consumer to wipe data and brick the phone in the case of loss or theft.
    Stop trying to compare a phone to a car.

    If Verizon wants the ability to do this or thinks it's okay, then they should never allow a phone under payment contract to be moved off a line.
    Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority. It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. -- Daniel Webster

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    It's not illegal for VZW to blacklist a phone that hasn't been paid in full. VZW owns the phone till it's paid in full. I don't see it any other way.
    If my actions include deeds of philanthropy in charity and acts of loving kindness I am living in my Faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tech_head View Post
    This is not the same thing.
    Also a phone blacklisted continues to work on WiFi just not on carrier networks.
    There is no kill switch in a phone unless activated by the consumer to wipe data and brick the phone in the case of loss or theft.
    Stop trying to compare a phone to a car.

    If Verizon wants the ability to do this or thinks it's okay, then they should never allow a phone under payment contract to be moved off a line.
    Verizon remotely killed the phone for it’s intended use as an iPhone.

  7. #67
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    bought brand-new Verizon phone on Swappa, but ESN became blacklisted 8 months...

    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    It's not illegal for VZW to blacklist a phone that hasn't been paid in full. VZW owns the phone till it's paid in full. I don't see it any other way.
    Because you have no idea how finance works. Everyone on here talking about "liens" and such on phones are seriously misinformed.

    Verizon is making UNSECURED loans to people for phones. Something like a car or a home is a SECURED loan where the property being purchased is used as collateral for the loan. The lender is agreed to have a lien against the title of ownership of said properties until the loan is paid in full. In default, a lien holder has an interest in the property when sold to recover their investment.

    Verizon has no intention of taking possession of the property to sell it and recoup their loss. Nowhere in the terms of these loans is there any clause regarding repossession of the property or Verizon having any interest in the devices being sold.

    The only terms are essentially, you pay a monthly payment with your service. If you cancel service or it's terminated for nonpayment, you owe the balance. That's it. This is just like buying something with a credit card.

    The credit card company has no property interest in the items you buy on your credit card. If you don't pay, you get sent to collections and if you don't pay that you'll probably get a judgement, but the items you purchased and defaulted on are still yours. You own them. If you buy an Apple laptop through their credit card, they don't brick your MacBook if you default. It's UNSECURED.

    I maintain that Verizon bricking phones that they have no legal property interest in is illegal. I don't think what they're doing is necessarily wrong from a business perspective, but without some kind of court order granting them an interest in the property it's definitely a gray area.

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    @clonehappy - Very well explained. I finally see the other perspective, thanks.

    I'm not sure what to think about this at the moment. Certainly I don't feel sorry for VZW. I imagine the default rate is quite high. If the contract can only be interpreted as an unsecured loan. Then if legal VZW should add to these contracts that these phones in default x # of days will be killed with a collectable debt still owed.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by CallmeJake View Post
    Verizon remotely killed the phone for it’s intended use as an iPhone.
    No it's not the same.
    Nothing was effectively done to the phone.
    It was done on the server side. ESN added to a database. Phone doesn't need to be active on their network for it to happen.

    Sprint can remotely lock or unlock a SIM.
    Must be active on the Sprint network for it to take effect.

    See the difference?

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    update:

    (1) the phone is only blacklisted on Verizon.... she tried it with Tracfone and AT&T Prepaid SIM cards and they worked fine...

    (2) the credit card company did a chargeback and she got all her money back... the strange thing was that it was from the credit card company that I hated the most, American Express Walmart Bluebird Card.(well, it's actually a prepaid debit card) Just to be safe, she withdrew all the money out of the card last week.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaCL View Post
    ....(2) the credit card company did a chargeback and she got all her money back... the strange thing was that it was from the credit card company that I hated the most, American Express Walmart Bluebird Card.(well, it's actually a prepaid debit card) Just to be safe, she withdrew all the money out of the card last week.
    FYI: AMX BlueBird is at application always linked to a valid Bank acct.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaCL View Post
    I feel somewhat responsible because I was the one who told her to buy from Swappa. At the time of purchase(May 2017), that Swappa seller was rated at 5 stars with 400+ ratings. I figured that it was pretty safe to buy from some one with so many high ratings.
    I would bet that a seller with over 400 ratings is more than likely a dealer & not someone selling their own personal phone's. It's very likely the seller didn't know the phone was on a device payment plan although the seller could have possibly done more research before listing the phone.

    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaCL View Post
    update:
    (2) the credit card company did a chargeback and she got all her money back... the strange thing was that it was from the credit card company that I hated the most, American Express Walmart Bluebird Card.(well, it's actually a prepaid debit card) Just to be safe, she withdrew all the money out of the card last week.
    Well that's good news, even for you because I know you were feeling a bit responsible. There are so many great budget & mid range priced phone's now that I just can't see any reason to purchase a used phone any more. There's just no need to take the risk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    FYI: AMX BlueBird is at application always linked to a valid Bank acct.
    not necessarily.... I had one when I was ordering small items from questionable foreign website.... I refill it by using cash at Walmart cash registers... never had it linked to any of my bank accounts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AmandaCL View Post
    not necessarily.... I had one when I was ordering small items from questionable foreign website.... I refill it by using cash at Walmart cash registers... never had it linked to any of my bank accounts.
    Oh ok.

    I do know a linked acct can be unlinked easily.

  15. #75
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    Or buy a American Express serve card where it does t require a linked card


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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