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Thread: whats the news on Verizon not allowing phones that dont support volte

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    My guess is that Vz will turn off voice service on the legacy small slice of CDMA and only make 1xRTT or EVDO available for IoT and MTM. I doubt that the FCC will try to force them to do otherwise.
    Ah, I see what you're saying. Data only.

    Yep, the truck roll is the part of the problem for entities having a lot of these things. The guy doing the work ain't making minimum wage either. There is also the cost of the new modules. Us replacing our handsets every few years on average has become our expectation. The IoT/MTM users just want the thing to run forever doing its little job.
    Yeah, the module is a tiny fraction of the overall cost of replacing it. The problem now really is poor planning on the IoT service providers' end.

    Someone mentioned a while back that a lot of these things got installed after the Target data breach caused by their HVAC contractor being connected to the corporate network. Having things like HVAC contractors with access to the corporate network is a major vulnerability.
    That's an interestingly kludgy way to get around having actual, proper network segmentation and security.

    My sister went through the OnStar AMPS shutdown with her car and was unhappily without it until they got a newer car. Probably all car manufacturers have learned is that planned obsolescence makes for more replacement car sales. It's not like they have any interest whatsoever in us keeping our cars for more than a few years.
    I don't think it really drives new car sales though. I don't think people go, "Gee, I don't have On Star anymore. Now I want a new car.". Still, there is little incentive for the car maker to keep stuff up to date.

    I have seen it mentioned that an IoT/MTM module can get service for something like $2 a month. I assume that does not include much data and many IoT/MTM uses don't need much. I bet the churn is almost nothing. I believe with most of these things you pay the system OEM, not the carrier directly.
    The generator monitoring is $100/year, the alarm systems are typically $20/mo plus, so I would believe $2/mo for Verizon's part of the action. That's potentially a LOT of money for so little work/data. If the average IoT device sends a few MB a month, the rate per MB is hundreds or thousands of times higher than a $200/mo family plan that uses 20GB of total data. Churn and acquisition cost is another good point.

    I doubt that Vz will want to deal with legacy voice users and their problems on 1.4 MHz - just let the IoT/MTM chatter away and collect the payments until the final twilight.
    Yeah, I suppose that makes sense. Hopefully they are proactive enough to ban new CDMA IoT devices if they haven't already, and start to push the service providers to move to LTE. I'm sure their bean counters have done the math to make sure they can make more money off the subscriptions than they lose in keeping the old dinosaur running until 2022. I suppose some sites could start to shut down/rip out CDMA gear and they could maintain a minimal 1xRTT network for pure coverage.

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    I'm hoping they shut it down entirely so my devices will stop getting stuck on 2G-3G in fringe areas.
    It's not that the LTE is unavailable its that when the signal gets weak it switches to 2G-3G and then it won't switch back in a timely fashion.
    Like the discussion going on in another thread about why 1X is stronger. I don't believe it is as much as I think the algorithm is just badly skewed toward the older tech.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sims View Post
    I'm hoping they shut it down entirely so my devices will stop getting stuck on 2G-3G in fringe areas.
    It's not that the LTE is unavailable its that when the signal gets weak it switches to 2G-3G and then it won't switch back in a timely fashion.
    Like the discussion going on in another thread about why 1X is stronger. I don't believe it is as much as I think the algorithm is just badly skewed toward the older tech.
    If they go the IoT-only direction, phones won't be allowed on the 1x at all, so it will be LTE or nothing. LTE doesn't seem to have the range that CDMA and HSPA+ have, but hopefully improvements to LTE will rectify that problem so that it can match the range of CDMA/1x.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sims View Post
    I'm hoping they shut it down entirely so my devices will stop getting stuck on 2G-3G in fringe areas.
    It's not that the LTE is unavailable its that when the signal gets weak it switches to 2G-3G and then it won't switch back in a timely fashion.
    Like the discussion going on in another thread about why 1X is stronger. I don't believe it is as much as I think the algorithm is just badly skewed toward the older tech.
    Once Jan 1st 2020 gets here your phone won't connect to the CDMA network even if a slice of it is left open for IoT and mtm. I think phone makes should just go ahead and stop putting in CDMA radios in phones

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Once Jan 1st 2020 gets here your phone won't connect to the CDMA network even if a slice of it is left open for IoT and mtm. I think phone makes should just go ahead and stop putting in CDMA radios in phones
    Sprint hasn't quite collapsed yet. USCC as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Once Jan 1st 2020 gets here your phone won't connect to the CDMA network even if a slice of it is left open for IoT and mtm. I think phone makes should just go ahead and stop putting in CDMA radios in phones
    Irony that Intel apparently finally gets CDMA into their chips for this year.
    iPhone 11 is my current primary phone. But I have more phones than lines. Back to only Prepaid with the changes in the economy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    Sprint hasn't quite collapsed yet. USCC as well.
    Ok maybe I shoudl have added FOR VERIZON. I just assumed this being a VERIZON FORUM and we were talking abut VERIZON's CDMA shutdown that this could just be inferred form my post. My bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Ok maybe I shoudl have added FOR VERIZON. I just assumed this being a VERIZON FORUM and we were talking abut VERIZON's CDMA shutdown that this could just be inferred form my post. My bad.
    Considering that there has to be a CDMA model of the iPhone anyway, and all Galaxy S phones are identical in hardware, it's largely irrelevant anyway. The only possible relevance is if Apple continues the two-supplier strategy on the iPhone, and only makes Qualcomm models for Unlocked, Sprint, USCC, and regional carriers, and puts an Intel version on Verizon.

    The other issue that may or may not be sorted out is if Verizon is still using roaming on USCC or other providers, or if some of the LTEiRA partners still have CDMA/EVDO areas in their networks. At some point, CDMA has to collapse completely, but it's not quite dead yet. My guess is by 2025, Sprint and USCC will pull the plug. If SprinT-Mobile goes through, then it might die a bit faster, as it will collapse once T-Mobile pulls the plug on Sprint's CDMA network.

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    I noticed the very bottom text from the product page for the Hum+ does say it has to be activated by June 30. An option to purchase the device with a two year contract is still available. The other two CDMA only devices still available for purchase are the GizmoPal 2 and GizmoGadget watch for kids. While a two-year contract is available for those watches, doing so won't provide a discount.

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    Good to see that they are banning new CDMA IoT devices as well, even though those have a few more years to go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GSMinCT View Post
    Considering that there has to be a CDMA model of the iPhone anyway, and all Galaxy S phones are identical in hardware, it's largely irrelevant anyway. The only possible relevance is if Apple continues the two-supplier strategy on the iPhone, and only makes Qualcomm models for Unlocked, Sprint, USCC, and regional carriers, and puts an Intel version on Verizon.

    The other issue that may or may not be sorted out is if Verizon is still using roaming on USCC or other providers, or if some of the LTEiRA partners still have CDMA/EVDO areas in their networks. At some point, CDMA has to collapse completely, but it's not quite dead yet. My guess is by 2025, Sprint and USCC will pull the plug. If SprinT-Mobile goes through, then it might die a bit faster, as it will collapse once T-Mobile pulls the plug on Sprint's CDMA network.
    If the merger goes through CDMA will be dumped long before 2025. if it doesn't Sprint will be dead by 2025.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    If the merger goes through CDMA will be dumped long before 2025. if it doesn't Sprint will be dead by 2025.
    Yes, it will die faster if T-Sprint goes through. It will take a couple of years to get everyone off of it and upgraded, so my guess if T-Sprint goes through would be December 31, 2022 for Sprint's CDMA to die. Who knows what happens if it doesn't, but then 2022 would be the earliest they could get rid of CDMA, more likely a year or two after that. USCC still has CDMA, as do (I believe) some Verizon LTEiRA partners that cross-roam, and continue to operate CDMA as long as they have VoLTE for customers who want service outside of their home area.

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