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Thread: FreeUP Mobile - has anyone tried their free plan?

  1. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >You're hoping for incompetence, which may well be the case, as FU at this point is hemorraging money with zero income.
    I agree with a lot of what you say, but unless you're a FreeUp exec, can you cite some source to back up this statement that FreeUp is hemorrhaging money and has zero income?

    Assuming that FreeUp makes no money off in non-paying users ignores what Google and Facebook have taught the world: that your information has value. It very well may be that FreedonPop and FreeUp found ways to sell their users data and make a profit offering a basic service to non-paying users -- and that isn't to suggest that they're the only ones selling your data.

  2. #272
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    One obvious way they make money is that you like the service so much you upgrade and pay for a plan or even earn rewards to pay for it. Several people I know tried out freeup and were comfortable enough with it to upgrade to a paid plan. Some just pay for it to avoid hassle and others do coupon printing to pay for it. The goal for freeup is to convert enough to paid plans to make offering the free plan worthwhile. With just 250 mins/texts that is going to push more to upgrade.

    Also several people I know with the free plan are actively building up a balance so that they can use it for add ons or to eventually upgrade. Again participating in their rewards program.

    So it is probably a good tactic overall to offer a small free plan as a stepping stone to a more expensive plan especially for an unknown in the mvno world. It is probably cheaper than advertising to gain subscribers or offering some kind of sign up bonus like some do. It really is the only way I see a free plan ever surviving if it is run in conjunction with attractive paid plans.

  3. #273
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    I reupped today for the free plan and got to keep the 1000 t/t plan.

  4. #274
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    Quote Originally Posted by millept View Post
    Will post back here when I renew in a few days.


    Sent from my moto e5 play using HoFo mobile app
    I too have just renewed and was able to keep the 1000 min/text plan.

    Sent from my moto x4 using HoFo mobile app

  5. #275
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    renewed and kept 1000 min/text plan here too, guess we are grandfathered in

  6. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by fubag View Post
    renewed and kept 1000 min/text plan here too, guess we are grandfathered in
    For now......

    I don’t know nothin’ - except that this business can be brutal. No contract means subject to change. Haha

    —Kidd
    Hear me on Twitter: @alexkidd1 / Fun connection:

  7. #277
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    >can you cite some source to back up this statement that FreeUp is hemorrhaging money and has zero income?

    You only need some common sense assumptions. Conservatively assume 1000 min/text costs FU $5/mo. Again, conservatively assume that, in its 8 months of operation, FU currently has 2000 users. Then, service costs alone are $10K/mo or higher, not including operational costs.

    On the revenue side, up to now FU has offered above 1000 min/text plan for free, which is enough for use as primary acct. This means its paid plans don't matter, as there's no incentive for people to upgrade from free. These are the folks who went to FU for freebies. Those who want paid plans wouldn't care about FU as a provider in the first place.

    There's reason why FU is attractive to people. You don't have to do much of anything for the freebie, for whatever reason. That's not how "freebies" work. Unless FU starts to do something to make money (serving ads or whatever), then it will die.

    So, the freebie's attractiveness is directly proportional to its lifespan. Great deal = one that will die soon. There is no free money.

    As for those optimists who think "plan upgrades" are the thing, look what happened to FreedomPop, who had a much more viable freemium scheme and a lot more money.

    >ignores what Google and Facebook have taught the world: that your information has value.

    Google and Facebook have first-mover advantage and scale on their side. You may note that most every company who aspires to take on Goog/FB has failed. If it were easy, everybody would've done it by now.
    Last edited by e.mote; 07-11-2019 at 10:17 AM.

  8. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >

    So, the freebie's attractiveness is directly proportional to its lifespan. Great deal = one that will die soon. There is no free money.
    Not to be nitpicky, but you have this exactly backwards. The attractiveness is *inversely* proportional to its lifespan. Or directly proportional to its chances of folding soon. Great deal = not long for this world. Crappy deal = could last a while, but few take the offer. The more attractive it is, the less chance of it lasting. To put it simply, more attractive-less lifespan.

    Of course, you could be saying something different. As in, "attractiveness" would be defined as not so much "great deal" but "so-so deal that makes sense and seems like it could last for many years and I'm only interested if it's likely to last for the long term". In this case it would be more attractive BECAUSE it has a long lifespan, and less attractive if there is no sustainability.

  9. #279
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    >The attractiveness is *inversely* proportional to its lifespan

    Yes, "inversely proportional" is right.

  10. #280
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >can you cite some source to back up this statement that FreeUp is hemorrhaging money and has zero income?

    You only need some common sense assumptions. Conservatively assume 1000 min/text costs FU $5/mo. Again, conservatively assume that, in its 8 months of operation, FU currently has 2000 users. Then, service costs alone are $10K/mo or higher, not including operational costs.

    On the revenue side, up to now FU has offered above 1000 min/text plan for free, which is enough for use as primary acct. This means its paid plans don't matter, as there's no incentive for people to upgrade from free. These are the folks who went to FU for freebies. Those who want paid plans wouldn't care about FU as a provider in the first place.

    There's reason why FU is attractive to people. You don't have to do much of anything for the freebie, for whatever reason. That's not how "freebies" work. Unless FU starts to do something to make money (serving ads or whatever), then it will die.

    So, the freebie's attractiveness is directly proportional to its lifespan. Great deal = one that will die soon. There is no free money.

    As for those optimists who think "plan upgrades" are the thing, look what happened to FreedomPop, who had a much more viable freemium scheme and a lot more money.
    Zero income. No paid customers. Plans with no data are enough for a primary account etc. That simply is not realistic.

    I think it is fair to assume that 250 mins/texts is not enough for a main plan for many people and the lack of data is a big incentive to upgrade. 1000 mins/text was probably too much hence why they have made the changes. If they were hemorrhaging money the logical thing to do would be to remove these old plans and not "grandfather" them in.

    I think that it is fair to assume that there will be a decent proportion upgrading to paid plans. Plus they have paid add ons which will be attractive to free plan users. Even freedompop cited something like 30% and it was giving away free data which is more attractive since free voice/text is easy with GV or even freedompop's own app. What happened to freedompop? They made profits and sold for a solid sum to two reputable mvnos despite the freeloaders.

    You also ignore the rewards program which brings in revenue and attracts people to upgrade to paid plans since they can use rewards to pay for them.

    And actually their paid plans are quite competitive even without rewards.

    It is good to be somewhat sceptical of freemium providers as their track record is pretty dismal. But freeup to me looks like a quality operation and I doubt the picture you paint is anywhere near the truth. I don't think they will be dying soon. I may be wrong but for a $10 sim there is not much to lose.

  11. #281
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    This will be the next ringplus

  12. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >can you cite some source to back up this statement that FreeUp is hemorrhaging money and has zero income?

    You only need some common sense assumptions. Conservatively assume 1000 min/text costs FU $5/mo. Again, conservatively assume that, in its 8 months of operation, FU currently has 2000 users. Then, service costs alone are $10K/mo or higher, not including operational costs.

    On the revenue side, up to now FU has offered above 1000 min/text plan for free, which is enough for use as primary acct. This means its paid plans don't matter, as there's no incentive for people to upgrade from free. These are the folks who went to FU for freebies. Those who want paid plans wouldn't care about FU as a provider in the first place.

    There's reason why FU is attractive to people. You don't have to do much of anything for the freebie, for whatever reason. That's not how "freebies" work. Unless FU starts to do something to make money (serving ads or whatever), then it will die.

    So, the freebie's attractiveness is directly proportional to its lifespan. Great deal = one that will die soon. There is no free money.

    As for those optimists who think "plan upgrades" are the thing, look what happened to FreedomPop, who had a much more viable freemium scheme and a lot more money.

    >ignores what Google and Facebook have taught the world: that your information has value.

    Google and Facebook have first-mover advantage and scale on their side. You may note that most every company who aspires to take on Goog/FB has failed. If it were easy, everybody would've done it by now.
    Thank you for admitting that you based your statement (that FreeUp is hemorrhaging money) off of assumptions.

    I think you missed the point about my comment referencing Facebook and Google, so I'll just repeat it: "your information has value". Big company or small, data on consumers has value and can be sold. Is it that hard to imagine that these providers have worked out deals where, thanks to the sale of your location and usage data, they can provide basic service *and* make a profit?

    Despite it's shortcomings, FreedomPop sold for a figure that shocked many, suggesting that Red Pocket saw real value there. (And to anyone who suggests that FreedomPop inflated their numbers, etc., I suggest you look up the phrase "due diligence".)

    If one needs further examples, look at Three UK and Netzclub (Germany), both of which offer basic 200MB/month free plans, and have done so for years. (Netzclub claims to support their service with email and SMS ads, but I can say that such ads are so rare as to be practically non-existent. They also recently increased the free data from 100MB to 200MB, which suggests they aren't losing money giving it away.)

    None of this is to suggest that FreeUp will be continue to be free or to exist; just that we don't know their business model, and given that, to make uninformed bold claims about their success is, in my opinion, shortsighted.

  13. #283
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    >Big company or small, data on consumers has value and can be sold. Is it that hard to imagine that these providers have worked out deals where, thanks to the sale of your location and usage data, they can provide basic service *and* make a profit?

    And you missed my point about its worth (or lack of). If selling user info has substantive value, then why haven't it made a difference in all the other freemium failures? Are you suggesting that FU is the first to think of it? Since you're so big on sources, then please provide a link that quantifies the value of this supposed revenue source?

    FU doesn't provide a "basic service" that makes any money. It's giving away free accts. You're saying that "selling user info" alone is enough to be its main income--and even more laughable, allow it to "turn a profit." You should realize how ludicrous that sounds.

    This reminds me of RingPlus' ridiculous ad scheme. I doubt anyone with a working brain would call the scheme feasible, but nobody wanted to admit the emperor has no clothes. People kept buying new plans, all the while rationalizing that it's a business, so it must be making money somehow. Maybe it's selling user info too?! Surely that's enough to turn a profit?! Oh, wait...

    >look at Three UK and Netzclub (Germany)

    Last I check, 3UK has an actual bona fide business. No idea who or what Netzclub is, but it bears no relevance to FU's failings. Germany, seriously? You're reaching pretty far for an argument.

    >Despite it's shortcomings, FreedomPop sold for a figure that shocked many, suggesting that Red Pocket saw real value there.

    Oh, the naivete. While the Ting purchase was made known through its public filings, the RP acquisition was for an "undisclosed amount." The only reference to money is from "unnamed sources" and is supposedly in "high eight figures." In other words, it's a rumor. You know what a rumor is, right?

    https://fiercewireless.com/wireless/...vno-freedompop

    FP's freemium foray was put on ice a year ago, when free SIMs were no longer offered. Instead, FP pivoted to paid plans and store sales (instead of online offerings), which resulted in Unreal. Freebie allotments were drastically cut, and users were subjected to various harassments to get them to quit. In other words, it's an expensive failure. I can't see how it can be labeled a success, or has "real value," unless you're reaching for any rationalization to make the case for FU.

    BTW, search on "Freedompop investment" and see how much money was sunk into FP over the years. It's in the "nine figures" mark and the difference is, this isn't a rumor.

    https://www.crunchbase.com/organizat...funding-rounds

  14. #284
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    e.mote, my only point was that, without hard data, we don't know what FreeUp's status is. Given the tone of your reply, I can tell this is no longer worth discussing.

  15. #285
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    >e.mote, my only point was that, without hard data, we don't know what FreeUp's status is. Given the tone of your reply, I can tell this is no longer worth discussing.

    Why do we need to know about FU's status to determine whether or not it's making money?

    It's giving away free accts. It's not making you do anything other sign in once a month. Ergo, it's not making money. More precisely, it's losing money. It doesn't get any simpler than that.

    You're right about my tone. I try to stay on the straight and narrow when I can. But once things get stupid--eg selling user info can "make profits," or "plan upgrades" will save the day--then the wheels fall off pretty fast. Call it an affliction: Dumb args => Mr Hyde breaks out.

    BTW, avoid the "provide source for all your claims while I pull mine out of thin air" shtick. If you want a discussion, this is not the way to go. And if you want to argue, argue better.

    Ultimately, all these yapping don't matter. FU users will continue using it until it dies, as well they should. What they shouldn't do is believe that their freebies come from Santa Claus, and don't need to be paid for.

    As for this being a discussion, it was never one. It's people with different notions of reality shouting past each other. I've no illusion that I can change anybody's mind. It's like an itch you scratch, knowing that if you do that it'll get worse, but you scratch it anyway because you can't help it. Scratch, scratch.

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