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  1. #31
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    With Apple, Apple basically owns the device and you're only buying a license to use it. iOS still doesn't have a way to limit usage data per billing cycle. Obviously intentional.

    And so what if Android is fragmented. How in the world does that affect the user?

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by HFUN View Post
    ....iOS still doesn't have a way to limit usage data per billing cycle. Obviously intentional....
    Is this true that iphone doesn't have a way to limit data usage???

    If so & I don't know that it is. [That's why I asked.]

    If true LOL that makes iphone users without unlimited data look like fools.
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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Worldwide iOS has under 25% market share.
    So what?

    Stockholders don't care about market share -- if you're making money. Nobody drags on BMW for having only about 3% global market share, because they're making money and they have customers who are happy to come back and buy another one of the company's products.

    Android may have the vast majority of market share, but really big companies like Motorola and LG and HP and Dell (and Microsoft and Blackberry/RIM and Nokia [the Finnish one] if you want to go back a few more years) haven't made money in mobile. All those other companies should be lucky enough to have "sheep" for customers.

    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Google is far from perfect but they haven't AFAIK purposely slowed performance on older phones to make users believe they need to upgrade.
    And Apple isn't recording my every move on an Android phone to market me to others. Besides, Apple got caught. Pick a better example.

    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Apple users seem never to be satisfied that they own a good product. They have to publicly denigrate competing products. On Reddit if someone asks a question about buying a streaming stick which may cost $50 it is guaranteed that one or more Apple TV users will chime in and say they are wasting $50 and should be buying an Apple TV. It reminds me of grammar school more or less.
    Can we get away from juvenile peeing contests and just let it be? Doesn't matter if Apple has only BMW's global market share; the reality is that they have a lot of influence (and $$$$) in the mobile world.

    You don't have to like Apple. I don't hate Samsung (though I do think Google is evil for misrepresenting themselves). Samsung make some fine hardware. They make some overpriced stuff, too. I don't have to knock 'em down to make myself feel better about a purchase I already feel fine about. And I appreciate that Apple and Google go after each other to make both operating systems better.

    Some people can tell the difference between genuine Levi's and $10 Wranglers at Wally World. If you can't, it's silly to spend the extra money for Levi's. For whatever reasons -- more private platform, longer support from the manufacturer, a seamless interface with their PC, they just really love that rose gold color, whatever -- iPhone users are pretty happy with their phones. They could decide at any time to spend their hard-earned bucks on something else. They don't. So what? It's no skin off anyone's nose that they don't. It doesn't invalidate your Galaxy 9 purchase (or your Alcatel cheapy purchase). Who gives a rip if the person next to you at the restaurant is wearing Levi's or Wranglers? Or whether they got there in a BMW or a Kia? Really, does it matter?

  4. #34
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    I think it’s simply a market both camps created for themselves. I look at Apple like Harley is to motorcycles. They’re more expensive but riders gotta ride them because it’s a Harley even though Yamaha and Kawasaki make better bikes for less money in the opinion of many. It doesn’t matter. The Harley rider is not going to be happy with anything else. Can anyone explain why MacBooks cost so much more than PC’s? I don’t see it but it’s the same mystique where there are segments of the population that would never use anything other than a Mac. To each his or her own.
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  5. #35
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    I've read this thread and I just think all you iPhone and Samsung Galaxy users are probably jealous of my LG Phoenix 2 that I got for $29.99 on Black Friday, 2016. Just sayin'...

  6. #36
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    BGR Article

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterfield View Post
    I think it’s simply a market both camps created for themselves. I look at Apple like Harley is to motorcycles. They’re more expensive but riders gotta ride them because it’s a Harley even though Yamaha and Kawasaki make better bikes for less money in the opinion of many. It doesn’t matter. The Harley rider is not going to be happy with anything else. Can anyone explain why MacBooks cost so much more than PC’s? I don’t see it but it’s the same mystique where there are segments of the population that would never use anything other than a Mac. To each his or her own.
    Well, with regards to Apple, the obvious answer is profit.

    I have never owned a Harley Davidson. I have owned what some would call "rice burners". I think it is pretty widely known in certain circles that HD doesn't necessarily sell the best motorcycle. They sell a "life style"!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by HFUN View Post
    And so what if Android is fragmented. How in the world does that affect the user?
    Fragmentation does cause problems for both the developer and end user.

    The end user might not be able to run a new app because their phone does not have the new OS. Also the user can't take advantage of new features on the OS.

    It makes it harder for the developer so if the new OS has a new feature the developer might not want to use it because it means the app will only work on the new OS and only a small user base can use the app.

    If all you do is make phone calls it might not make a lot of difference in that case.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad4cell View Post
    Fragmentation does cause problems for both the developer and end user.

    The end user might not be able to run a new app because their phone does not have the new OS. Also the user can't take advantage of new features on the OS....
    The same happens with IOS, but maybe not as quickly. There are lots of apps that no longer load on my old IOS device.

    I factory reset a cheapo Maven yesterday that has Android 5.1. The USPS app would not install. That was a bit of a surprise. The other apps all installed. Yeah, it's PITA for developers.

    Using features of newer OSs is mostly a "power user" thing. Most people just touch an icon and it works and never fiddle with phone settings, gestures, etc.

    My new phone has a fingerprint reader. I like it, but my hair would not catch on fire if I had to use a phone without one.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveinmn View Post
    So what?

    Stockholders don't care about market share -- if you're making money. Nobody drags on BMW for having only about 3% global market share, because they're making money and they have customers who are happy to come back and buy another one of the company's products.

    Android may have the vast majority of market share, but really big companies like Motorola and LG and HP and Dell (and Microsoft and Blackberry/RIM and Nokia [the Finnish one] if you want to go back a few more years) haven't made money in mobile. All those other companies should be lucky enough to have "sheep" for customers.
    The market share matters because such a large percentage of Android's share comes from low income countries where cheap off brand Chinese phones dominate the market. They aren't getting OS upgrades and OS upgrades was the main point made by the Apple Fanboy who started the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Steveinmn View Post
    And Apple isn't recording my every move on an Android phone to market me to others. Besides, Apple got caught. Pick a better example.
    That was covered with the 'Google isn't perfect' part of my post that you ignored and as the topic revolves around OS upgrades Apple slowing down users phones purposely to make them believe they need new hardware is more relevant to the thread. If the focus of the thread was privacy your point would be made however you can't possibly be naive enough to believe that Apple doesn't track, allow its users to be tracked by others and profit from it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Steveinmn View Post
    Can we get away from juvenile peeing contests and just let it be? Doesn't matter if Apple has only BMW's global market share; the reality is that they have a lot of influence (and $$$$) in the mobile world.

    You don't have to like Apple. I don't hate Samsung (though I do think Google is evil for misrepresenting themselves). Samsung make some fine hardware. They make some overpriced stuff, too. I don't have to knock 'em down to make myself feel better about a purchase I already feel fine about. And I appreciate that Apple and Google go after each other to make both operating systems better.

    Some people can tell the difference between genuine Levi's and $10 Wranglers at Wally World. If you can't, it's silly to spend the extra money for Levi's. For whatever reasons -- more private platform, longer support from the manufacturer, a seamless interface with their PC, they just really love that rose gold color, whatever -- iPhone users are pretty happy with their phones. They could decide at any time to spend their hard-earned bucks on something else. They don't. So what? It's no skin off anyone's nose that they don't. It doesn't invalidate your Galaxy 9 purchase (or your Alcatel cheapy purchase). Who gives a rip if the person next to you at the restaurant is wearing Levi's or Wranglers? Or whether they got there in a BMW or a Kia? Really, does it matter?
    I describe how Apple fanboys respond ad nauseam to threads that have nothing to do with Apple or in this case create a thread just to denigrate another product and you ascribe me as being in a juvenile peeing contest?

    Apple makes a great product that people are satisfied with. I don't create posts bad mouthing them because I prefer Android or Android TV. I will respond to them though.

  10. #40
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    One problem with a small market share is less developers create apps for the OS.

    Apple almost went out of business before and part of the problem was a lot of programs where only being created for windows so even if people liked apple they had to buy windows so they could run certain programs often for work.

    This was also a problem that helped kill the Windows phone OS not having enough apps.

    This could happen again if there are popular apps only available on android and people can't get them on iphone.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    Is this true that iphone doesn't have a way to limit data usage???

    If so & I don't know that it is. [That's why I asked.]

    If true LOL that makes iphone users without unlimited data look like fools.
    Not only is it true that Apple doesn't have a native data limit app but they also prohibit 3rd party data limit apps. There are plenty of data COUNTER apps but none of them can limit your data usage because Apple intentionally and maliciously prohibits it! And there are many reason iPhone users are fools!

    Quote Originally Posted by Peterfield View Post
    I look at Apple like Harley is to motorcycles.
    Harley is dying just like Cadillac

    Quote Originally Posted by brad4cell View Post
    Fragmentation does cause problems for both the developer and end user.

    The end user might not be able to run a new app because their phone does not have the new OS. Also the user can't take advantage of new features on the OS.
    This is not only limited by the OS version. It is also limited by the processor and ram.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    The market share matters because such a large percentage of Android's share comes from low income countries where cheap off brand Chinese phones dominate the market. They aren't getting OS upgrades and OS upgrades was the main point made by the Apple Fanboy who started the thread.
    From your original post:
    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid
    Most decent Android phone manufacturers will send security updates regularly but Pixel would be the best way to be sure.

    The stats for Pie look so poor in relation to iOS because Android wallops iOS market share wise world wide with 75% share and in Asia, Africa and South America has 85-90% market share. In those areas where less than 1 in 10 users has an iPhone does anyone seriously believe that security and the latest OS is the primary concern? If it was they'd all save up for Pixels or iPhones.
    Since the OS provides the majority of the security features on a phone and since a smartphone is the computer most people use, then yes, security and the latest OS should be a primary concern. But manufacturers (or Google) not providing updates to fairly recent cheap phones do no service to people who cannot save up for a Galaxy S or a Pixel or a ThinQ or an iPhone. And, in many real senses, poorer people have more to lose to hacking and such than someone who can part with $800 or more for a flagship phone.

    Besides, we're talking percentages here, which are independent of absolute numbers. Free OS update even on less expensive phones and people still don't update to it? What's up with that? Maybe the limitation is there not being an update available for the phone. Why would anyone think people don't care about being safe and secure even if they can't live in the nicest (phone) neighborhoods?

    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    That was covered with the 'Google isn't perfect' part of my post that you ignored and as the topic revolves around OS upgrades Apple slowing down users phones purposely to make them believe they need new hardware is more relevant to the thread. If the focus of the thread was privacy your point would be made however you can't possibly be naive enough to believe that Apple doesn't track, allow its users to be tracked by others and profit from it.
    From your original post:
    Google is far from perfect but they haven't AFAIK purposely slowed performance on older phones to make users believe they need to upgrade.
    Didn't "ignore" that part. Couldn't read how much ground "far from perfect" covered.

    I have more issue with Google reporting my every move (where I've been, what I've searched for, etc.) than I do with Apple slowing down their phones (ostensibly in the name of saving the battery; while it is a marginally valid excuse I think they could have handled that whole issue far better).

    Google's invasion of privacy (or lack of clearly describing the level of information being offered to third parties so users at least know their data is the price of a free open-source phone OS) should be far more important than an iPhone that slows down with an OS update (<sarcasm>gee, a new OS slowing down older hardware? Never happened before in the history of computers</sarcasm>). There's no equivalency here, even if the thread topic is OS updates (which have a great deal to do with security and privacy).

    And, yes, I do believe using an iPhone (and NO Google apps at all on it, including mail) makes my life more private. Read up, if you want, on which platform security experts consider more secure/private. (tl;dr: it's not Android, especially not a couple of versions back)

    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    I describe how Apple fanboys respond ad nauseam to threads that have nothing to do with Apple or in this case create a thread just to denigrate another product and you ascribe me as being in a juvenile peeing contest?

    Apple makes a great product that people are satisfied with. I don't create posts bad mouthing them because I prefer Android or Android TV. I will respond to them though.
    We're all in this (now three page) thread. My mistake was in replying to the last post in the thread, which was yours.

    But there have been plenty of comments in this thread knocking Apple for what most non-HoFo phone users would consider edge use cases. The point in my OP is that many of the arguments being made against Apple/iPhones/iOS are pretty minor when Google and Android manufacturers adopt Apple's "heinous" behavior (like non-user-replaceable batteries) as soon as they can get it onto the market.

    Buy whichever damn phone you want and be happy with it. I did. I just find some of the Android fanboi comments interesting given how much many Android phone manufacturers want to look more like Apple. That's all.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steveinmn View Post
    From your original post:

    Since the OS provides the majority of the security features on a phone and since a smartphone is the computer most people use, then yes, security and the latest OS should be a primary concern. But manufacturers (or Google) not providing updates to fairly recent cheap phones do no service to people who cannot save up for a Galaxy S or a Pixel or a ThinQ or an iPhone. And, in many real senses, poorer people have more to lose to hacking and such than someone who can part with $800 or more for a flagship phone.

    Besides, we're talking percentages here, which are independent of absolute numbers. Free OS update even on less expensive phones and people still don't update to it? What's up with that? Maybe the limitation is there not being an update available for the phone. Why would anyone think people don't care about being safe and secure even if they can't live in the nicest (phone) neighborhoods?


    From your original post:

    Didn't "ignore" that part. Couldn't read how much ground "far from perfect" covered.

    I have more issue with Google reporting my every move (where I've been, what I've searched for, etc.) than I do with Apple slowing down their phones (ostensibly in the name of saving the battery; while it is a marginally valid excuse I think they could have handled that whole issue far better).

    Google's invasion of privacy (or lack of clearly describing the level of information being offered to third parties so users at least know their data is the price of a free open-source phone OS) should be far more important than an iPhone that slows down with an OS update (<sarcasm>gee, a new OS slowing down older hardware? Never happened before in the history of computers</sarcasm>). There's no equivalency here, even if the thread topic is OS updates (which have a great deal to do with security and privacy).

    And, yes, I do believe using an iPhone (and NO Google apps at all on it, including mail) makes my life more private. Read up, if you want, on which platform security experts consider more secure/private. (tl;dr: it's not Android, especially not a couple of versions back)


    We're all in this (now three page) thread. My mistake was in replying to the last post in the thread, which was yours.

    But there have been plenty of comments in this thread knocking Apple for what most non-HoFo phone users would consider edge use cases. The point in my OP is that many of the arguments being made against Apple/iPhones/iOS are pretty minor when Google and Android manufacturers adopt Apple's "heinous" behavior (like non-user-replaceable batteries) as soon as they can get it onto the market.

    Buy whichever damn phone you want and be happy with it. I did. I just find some of the Android fanboi comments interesting given how much many Android phone manufacturers want to look more like Apple. That's all.
    You have my sincerest apologies because my first post to you was intended for someone else. My bad. You hadn't said anything to cause me to react the way I did. I went into advanced mode and somehow mixed things up. I hope you accept my apology I feel like a jerk.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    You have my sincerest apologies because my first post to you was intended for someone else. My bad. You hadn't said anything to cause me to react the way I did. I went into advanced mode and somehow mixed things up. I hope you accept my apology I feel like a jerk.
    No harm; no foul. It's the nature of the beast (forum software). Apology accepted. Thank you.

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