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Thread: Sprintís Merger With T-Mobile Is Taking Too Long. Itís Time to Worry. - Barron's

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    Sprint will not go bankrupt. SoftBank & Japan will not let this happen.
    SoftBank has more debt than most nations and has agreed in writing to Japanese banks in a legal covenant to not put any major money into Sprint. SoftBank isn’t going to Rescue Sprint again.

    Sprint is worth more in a break up sale to SoftBank. SoftBank isn’t going to pay off Sprint’s $40 plus Billion dollars debt for a company that can’t even produce income.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 04-29-2019 at 08:46 PM.

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    So I just read that Verizon is going to charge people $10 more to use 5G service? What a bunch of crooks!

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    They recently nixed that, actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JimMcGraff View Post
    They recently nixed that, actually.
    Well it's said that they're going to wave it for now? Unless you have a moto Z3 then you're going to have to pay the $10 a month after a 3 month trial I believe?

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    Perhaps as I haven't read too far into it other than they're backpedaling on it for now. To be fair I don't really mind an upcharge on a whole brand new layer of technology, especially as an opt-in, but in reality until they start providing it on a larger scale it's a poor move to charge extra. At present the different facets of 5G technologies don't really provide much benefit to your average consumer outside of posting meanless speedtests with the only real upside being possible congestion relief but based on how limited any carrier has these 5G technologies I doubt there would be much, if any, noticeable improvements. This whole race to the top type BS is looking sloppy for all carriers if I'm being honest and I think the real game changer will come when the dynamic spectrum sharing gets implemented since AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile all seem to be deploying radios that are capable of having at least some of their LTE spectrum work over 4G and 5G at the same time IF the technology works as promised.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    SoftBank has more debt than most nations and has agreed in writing to Japanese banks in a legal covenant to not put any major money into Sprint. SoftBank isnít going to Rescue Sprint again.

    Sprint is worth more in a break up sale to SoftBank. SoftBank isnít going to pay off Sprintís $40 plus Billion dollars debt for a company that canít even produce income.
    Kindly provide a link, I'd like to read about this legal covenant. I've read or heard nothing about this.
    If my actions include deeds of philanthropy in charity and acts of loving kindness I am living in my Faith.

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    Kindly provide a link, I'd like to read about this legal covenant. I've read or heard nothing about this.
    I will look for it as soon as you provide a link that says SoftBank and Japan won’t let Sprint go bankrupt as you claimed as a fact. SoftBank wants out as a Telco holding hedge fund.

    Till then read about SoftBank own debt issues. https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/06/so...ebt-obsession/

    “Softbank CFO Yoshimitsu Goto stated that the company is in the early stages of a transition from a telco holding company to an investment company, and as a result is “likely to be perceived as a corporate group with significant debt and interest payment burden” with what is “generally considered a high level of debt.””

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    I will look for it as soon as you provide a link that says SoftBank and Japan wonít let Sprint go bankrupt as you claimed as a fact....
    You are asserting as fact. I am surmising.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    I will look for it as soon as you provide a link that says SoftBank and Japan won’t let Sprint go bankrupt as you claimed as a fact. SoftBank wants out as a Telco holding hedge fund.

    Till then read about SoftBank own debt issues. https://techcrunch.com/2018/11/06/so...ebt-obsession/

    “Softbank CFO Yoshimitsu Goto stated that the company is in the early stages of a transition from a telco holding company to an investment company, and as a result is “likely to be perceived as a corporate group with significant debt and interest payment burden” with what is “generally considered a high level of debt.””
    Right, the completely unable to fund Sprint or anything new and has no room for anything.

    That bought ARM. Yes, that ARM that is the only direct competitor to Intel's legacy x86 architecture for chips.

    Clearly if you could obtain ARM, you could have found a few creative ways to boost Sprint to actually have some capex to build a real network with that virgin spectrum they still hold.

    Also to the point more general about spectrum and this merger - who cares about that much about 5G? As a person into tech and following cellular, I'm really missing the OMGZ HYPERSPEEZ!!!

    LTE brought us what I'd argue the single largest leap of any generation thus far. UMTS/WCDMA is/was essentially stuck at 5x5 channels. It brought in all IP networks with no circuit switching. Latency is routinely at the 20ms which is equal to my and many land lines. Speeds are regularly over 100mbps from all the speed tests we see here. Calls are much clearer on Volte than ever before.

    I want more speed, surely and I wait the day someone offers gigabyte internet to my house (In the middle of Phoenix in a regular middle-class neighborhood I'm still stunned why we don't' have it). That gigabyte pipe would feed a couple phones, my computer, the TV, a tablet, and the wireless camera's I have set up to stream for security. It makes sense.

    For this connected everything, IoT, self delivering drones, etc utopia they think 5G will bring makes no sense. Hardly any of those applications require a massive data pipe. They need a rock solid connection and low latency. I can see drones or self-driving cars needing ever lower latency, but again though for most other purposes the 20ms to 5ms latency drop isn't a huge deal. Yes, it's multitudes quicker! But nobody can physically understand a 15ms difference. Also, half the stuff they wish to power doesn't exist now nor will it be ready for prime time in any near future. Heck, the self driving cars with a person have still killed people.

    Also, is much of the hype of 5G that it's using 200+MHz of spectrum? If you could dedicate that much to LTE in one chunk, I'm sure we'd all be pretty happy as it is. And I think Spring is the only one with that much contiguous spectrum to deploy today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphling27 View Post
    Right, the completely unable to fund Sprint or anything new and has no room for anything.

    That bought ARM. Yes, that ARM that is the only direct competitor to Intel's legacy x86 architecture for chips.

    Clearly if you could obtain ARM, you could have found a few creative ways to boost Sprint to actually have some capex to build a real network with that virgin spectrum they still hold.

    Also to the point more general about spectrum and this merger - who cares about that much about 5G? As a person into tech and following cellular, I'm really missing the OMGZ HYPERSPEEZ!!!

    LTE brought us what I'd argue the single largest leap of any generation thus far. UMTS/WCDMA is/was essentially stuck at 5x5 channels. It brought in all IP networks with no circuit switching. Latency is routinely at the 20ms which is equal to my and many land lines. Speeds are regularly over 100mbps from all the speed tests we see here. Calls are much clearer on Volte than ever before.

    I want more speed, surely and I wait the day someone offers gigabyte internet to my house (In the middle of Phoenix in a regular middle-class neighborhood I'm still stunned why we don't' have it). That gigabyte pipe would feed a couple phones, my computer, the TV, a tablet, and the wireless camera's I have set up to stream for security. It makes sense.

    For this connected everything, IoT, self delivering drones, etc utopia they think 5G will bring makes no sense. Hardly any of those applications require a massive data pipe. They need a rock solid connection and low latency. I can see drones or self-driving cars needing ever lower latency, but again though for most other purposes the 20ms to 5ms latency drop isn't a huge deal. Yes, it's multitudes quicker! But nobody can physically understand a 15ms difference. Also, half the stuff they wish to power doesn't exist now nor will it be ready for prime time in any near future. Heck, the self driving cars with a person have still killed people.

    Also, is much of the hype of 5G that it's using 200+MHz of spectrum? If you could dedicate that much to LTE in one chunk, I'm sure we'd all be pretty happy as it is. And I think Spring is the only one with that much contiguous spectrum to deploy today.
    The primary focus of 5G isn't latency reduction, its more leaning towards spectrum efficiency. Spectrum is a finite resource and a very expensive one. Carries want to optimize the use out of it, even if its a mere 15% gain. Considering nowadays everyone has a smart phone, this finite spectrum gets crowded fast.

    Latency reduction is a bonus that is critical in the autonomous sector. 10ms difference is not a big deal from a human perception, but 10ms from a self capable machine standpoint can be the difference between life and death.

    T-mobile is so eager to roll their 600mhz into 5G because they don't have that much of it in metro areas. They have on average 15mhz, that will get packed quick. They can dance around saying look how much 600mhz we have but in the end of the day its not that much when you take metro areas into account. They know that, hence a 15% gain by taking the same spectrum to 5G could yield serious gains when you tally up whole spectrum portfolio.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morphling27 View Post
    LTE brought us what I'd argue the single largest leap of any generation thus far. UMTS/WCDMA is/was essentially stuck at 5x5 channels. It brought in all IP networks with no circuit switching. Latency is routinely at the 20ms which is equal to my and many land lines. Speeds are regularly over 100mbps from all the speed tests we see here. Calls are much clearer on Volte than ever before.
    I agree with you, though it would be nice to see more of what you describe here in South Orange County, CA. I'm happy if I can get 5Mbps and 150ms latency... It's another reason I so much want to choose my own LTE bands.

    The good news is that our office is 10' under a TMo Band 4 site, so this is as good as it gets here:

    • 80.5 down 41.2 up and 29ms ping on the test I just ran on B4. This is better than I was expecting to get.


    I wish it was half as good as that across the parking lot in Ralphs, but the panels aren't visible from street level. They aren't even visible until you go above the roofline.

    But yeah, I don't have any use for a massive 1000Mbps data pipe. I use maybe 2GB a month of data...

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    SoftBank has more debt than most nations and has agreed in writing to Japanese banks in a legal covenant to not put any major money into Sprint. SoftBank isn’t going to Rescue Sprint again.
    I did not hear about a legal covenant. I do recall hearing a couple of years ago that the Softbank board of directors told CEO Son, no more investment in Sprint.

    Sprint is worth more in a break up sale to SoftBank. SoftBank isn’t going to pay off Sprint’s $40 plus Billion dollars debt for a company that can’t even produce income.
    Sprint is more than $50 billion behind Verizon and AT&T in capital expenditure. It seems clear that Softbank, or anyone else, does not believe that that level of investment, along with Sprint's debt, is worth that level of investment for the return on investment they would get.
    Last edited by bobdevnul; 05-01-2019 at 01:44 PM. Reason: punctuation

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    I have a Sprint line and my issue tends to be upload speeds. As a general rule, upload speeds average between 1-2 Mbps. So, if there is any congestion, LTE becomes unusable as upload speeds go well below 1 Mbps. Worse, the uploads seem to happen in bursts -- making it seem like you've got a lot of latency. Sprint has a lot to fix with their network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mogelijk View Post
    I have a Sprint line and my issue tends to be upload speeds. As a general rule, upload speeds average between 1-2 Mbps. So, if there is any congestion, LTE becomes unusable as upload speeds go well below 1 Mbps. Worse, the uploads seem to happen in bursts -- making it seem like you've got a lot of latency. Sprint has a lot to fix with their network.
    Do you have data roaming on?

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    Quote Originally Posted by L33 View Post
    The primary focus of 5G isn't latency reduction, its more leaning towards spectrum efficiency. Spectrum is a finite resource and a very expensive one. Carries want to optimize the use out of it, even if its a mere 15% gain. Considering nowadays everyone has a smart phone, this finite spectrum gets crowded fast.

    Latency reduction is a bonus that is critical in the autonomous sector. 10ms difference is not a big deal from a human perception, but 10ms from a self capable machine standpoint can be the difference between life and death.

    T-mobile is so eager to roll their 600mhz into 5G because they don't have that much of it in metro areas. They have on average 15mhz, that will get packed quick. They can dance around saying look how much 600mhz we have but in the end of the day its not that much when you take metro areas into account. They know that, hence a 15% gain by taking the same spectrum to 5G could yield serious gains when you tally up whole spectrum portfolio.
    Right, I get that want and need to increase efficiency and I'm not against that and progress. I'm not savvy on 5G, mostly I'd say cause it is so new. If it's a 15% gain, that is incredible overall but it isn't going to hearken the second coming of Him. It will help keep up with all the devices connected. I just found much of the 'wow' factor in 5G at the moment seems to be it's using spectrum with a 200MHz wide channel vs our typical 20MHz one now.

    I guess what I wanted to see, instead of MORE fragile connections, make options to have less capacity on the band but a much stronger and farther signal reach. I get your countries like the UK are dense and don't need rural broadcasting capabilities for many scenarios. But, the USA, Canada, Mexico, Brazil, China, and so forth are huge countries with far and few people in rural areas. Also, all those countries have much less favorable terrain to contend with than the rolling meadows and hills in much of the UK. Heck, my own state of AZ is larger than the UK by a good margin and we have a lot more forest, mountains, canyons, and more to contend with. Capacity for capacity's sake shouldn't be the ONLY motive.

    Also, Sprint could have even better capacity in this frame because of the inherent benefits related to that with TDD. Yes, there are downsides to TDD too, but for speed, better use of spectrum capacity, ability to be more dynamic based on network needs, it wins hands down.

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