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Thread: 2 On Your Side (LA Area): Potential Risks Of Cell Towers

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    2 On Your Side (LA Area): Potential Risks Of Cell Towers

    CBS down here is jumping on the bandwagon, though not as negatively as the one from Sacramento. I saw this on the news last night on KCAL (short version) and KCBS (long version).

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/vide...f-cell-towers/

    I’ve not seen anything like these, but am surprised to see them deployed outside of downtown, if they are really mmWave and not just LTE small cells.

    I'm seeing so much "noise" on this now. It's not going to help deployments. I only wish they were popping up all over South OC...

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    I've seen many of these in 'the Valley' - I think its a Verizon site:
    https://www.google.com/maps/@34.2284...8i8192!5m1!1e4

    Up here in suburbia, T-Mobile has put out many that are much smaller with omni's (LTE/3G band 2/4)
    https://www.google.com/maps/@34.4548...8i8192!5m1!1e4
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon_73 View Post
    CBS down here is jumping on the bandwagon, though not as negatively as the one from Sacramento. I saw this on the news last night on KCAL (short version) and KCBS (long version).

    https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/vide...f-cell-towers/

    I’ve not seen anything like these, but am surprised to see them deployed outside of downtown, if they are really mmWave and not just LTE small cells.

    I'm seeing so much "noise" on this now. It's not going to help deployments. I only wish they were popping up all over South OC...
    Typical idiocy from the local news talking-heads. They have as much credibility as anti-vaxxers on matters of science and engineering. This is why we let scientists and engineers advise government regulators on such things. I doubt these talking-heads are aware that state and local regulators are prohibited by federal law from considering the emissions from cells for site approval.

    Meanwhile, I'm sure that the vast majority of those that worry about "radiation" from cell radios think nothing about using their cellphones right on their heads that are emitting a half a Watt or so, while the signal from the cell is 5 billion times less*. Are they worried about spending extended periods of time within feet of their Wifi router emitting 32 milliwatts or the leakage from their microwave ovens?

    They did let one bit of rational truth slip into the segment with a clip from C-Net saying, "The science out there has already been tested on a lot of this stuff... the companies are forced to go through FCC regulations and testing to make sure it's all safe..."

    I can agree with the residents that those things are UGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGLY.

    We will definitely see a lot of "noise" about this.

    *The signal power in short waling distance to a cell is about -70 dBm. That is 0.0000000001 Watts - one ten billionth of a Watt.

    Hopefully I've done the math correctly. In any case, the signal power you get by the time it gets to your phone is very small, especially in comparison to your cellphone transmitting right next to your head.

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    So I bet these same NIMBY people in that video all have Dual band Wi-Fi in there homes... If it is mmWave then most of the signal won’t even penetrate the glass window. Ok I get it is ugly but that could be corrected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    In any case, the signal power you get by the time it gets to your phone is very small, especially in comparison to your cellphone transmitting right next to your head.
    This is the more important thing to realize. If I recall physics from high school, this follows the inverse square law for radiated power. The question becomes:
    a) How close are you to a 'cell tower'?
    b) How much power is it radiating?
    c) If you typically speak with your head to your cell phone, wear your cellphone in your pocket, sit next to a wifi router... you may be getting more exposure than from your cell tower.
    d) Do you have an old microwave, and stand in front while cooking ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    So I bet these same NIMBY people in that video all have Dual band Wi-Fi in there homes... If it is mmWave then most of the signal won’t even penetrate the glass window. Ok I get it is ugly but that could be corrected.
    I know, it's maddening. Here's one for you.

    I'm currently trying to help an HOA put up a tower or two in the Desert and it's a cat fight. But, to remove the "cell tower cancer" problem, some residents hired attorneys to look at a "campus Wi-Fi" mesh system instead. I spoke to one of those communications attorneys on a conference call and she said that Wi-Fi doesn't transmit "radiation" (when cell sites do according to her), so the problem of cancer in 0 with Wi-Fi. That call didn't go well as I couldn't let that rest, lol.

    Well, I won't argue that the problem is 0 with Wi-Fi but to say that cell sites produce "radiation" and therefore cancer when Wi-Fi doesn't is patently absurd.

    As if cell sites are powered by uranium or something...
    Last edited by Falcon_73; 05-15-2019 at 02:46 PM.

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    I’ve gotten in many arguments about “radiation” from cell towers. People are so ridiculous.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    B4+B30+B66+B14 (20 MHz + 10 MHz + 10 MHz + 10 MHz)
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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    This is the more important thing to realize. If I recall physics from high school, this follows the inverse square law for radiated power. The question becomes:
    a) How close are you to a 'cell tower'?
    b) How much power is it radiating?
    c) If you typically speak with your head to your cell phone, wear your cellphone in your pocket, sit next to a wifi router... you may be getting more exposure than from your cell tower.
    d) Do you have an old microwave, and stand in front while cooking ?
    All of the above, then pause and consider that cellular, Wifi, and microwave ovens have been in widespread use for decades. The CDC and epidemiologists surely would have noticed any even tiny health effects. They have not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon_73 View Post
    I know, it's maddening. Here's one for you.

    I'm currently trying to help an HOA put up a tower or two in the Desert and it's a cat fight. But, to remove the "cell tower cancer" problem, some residents hired attorneys to look at a "campus Wi-Fi" mesh system instead. I spoke to one of those communications attorneys on a conference call and she said that Wi-Fi doesn't transmit "radiation" (when cell sites do according to her), so the problem of cancer in 0 with Wi-Fi. That call didn't go well as I could let that rest, lol.

    Well, I won't argue that the problem is 0 with Wi-Fi but to say that cell sites produce "radiation" and therefore cancer when Wi-Fi doesn't is patently absurb.
    That is face-palm ignorant. I do not expect talking-head news readers to have a STEM background. The profession does not seem to attract them. Attorneys, on the other hand, even if they don't have a STEM educational background, are supposedly highly educated and should know better than to make up science facts.

    As if cell sites are powered by uranium or something...
    Well they may be if there is a nuclear power plant on the electric grid. Those neutrons could sneak out of the core, ride the steam from the boiler into the generator, jump from the steam pipe and turbine to the generator wires and pass onto the transmission wires, jumping between the transformer windings along the way to your cell site and onto your phone then your head. That makes as much sense as asserting that Wifi doesn't transmit radiation. ;~>
    Last edited by bobdevnul; 05-15-2019 at 03:07 PM. Reason: corrected spelling of plant

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    This is the more important thing to realize. If I recall physics from high school, this follows the inverse square law for radiated power. The question becomes:
    a) How close are you to a 'cell tower'?
    b) How much power is it radiating?
    c) If you typically speak with your head to your cell phone, wear your cellphone in your pocket, sit next to a wifi router... you may be getting more exposure than from your cell tower.
    d) Do you have an old microwave, and stand in front while cooking ?
    Yeah, the phone in your pocket and next to your head is a much stronger field that that generated by the tower even across the street.

    The irony is and I mentioned this at the HOA meeting is that the phone works harder to talk back to distant towers (there are no close ones in that community), further increasing its output at a very close 1/r^2 distance, for those that are supposedly so concerned... I told them you might think it's a phone, but it's really a 2-way radio in your hand. (And if you are ok with that and the other stuff mentioned above, why is a tower that's so very much weaker a problem?)

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    Well they may be if there is a nuclear power plan on the electric grid. Those neutrons could sneak out of the core, ride the steam from the boiler into the generator, jump from the steam pipe and turbine to the generator wires and pass onto the transmission wires, jumping between the transformer windings along the way to your cell site and onto your phone then your head. That makes as much sense as asserting that Wifi doesn't transmit radiation. ;~>
    Hah! Totally.

    My point to the HOA wasn't so much that there's absolutely no risk, but unless the homeowners are willing to wrap their homes in metal, bury them well underground and have ZERO electrical devices in said underground house while never leaving said house, that they shouldn't be worried about cell towers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon_73 View Post
    Yeah, the phone in your pocket and next to your head is a much stronger field that that generated by the tower even across the street.

    The irony is and I mentioned this at the HOA meeting is that the phone works harder to talk back to distant towers (there are no close ones in that community), further increasing its output at a very close 1/r^2 distance, for those that are supposedly so concerned... I told them you might think it's a phone, but it's really a 2-way radio in your hand. (And if you are ok with that and the other stuff mentioned above, why is a tower that's so very much weaker a problem?)
    Correct... Its not like a TV or Radio transmitter (+50kW) 30 miles away - ONLY transmitting.
    For service to work, your cell has to transmit ... back.
    Whether its 'noisy' service from interference or issues from distance - more power to transmit 'back' to the cell site from a device 'in your hand' or 'in your pocket' is needed. Being that it is in physical contact with you... full power is literally radiated to you, vs. something across the street. Does that mean that I want one in front of my window... no. How about on the stoplight at a major intersection.... much more likely. Those living in MDU (Apartment/Condo complexes) typically end up in LA with one nearby due to capacity/use, just like a strip mall plaza. So Cal doesn't have many high rise apartments compared to most cities, so you'll see a LOT of these.

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    The media is in business to stir the pot and sell advertising. Anyone who thinks they care one iota about the fears and concerns they report should stay tuned for "Film At 11:00". They love drama and tragedy because it raises their ratings.

    Listen to the Eagles song "Dirty Laundry" from back in the 80's. Nothing has changed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daleraver View Post
    The media is in business to stir the pot and sell advertising. Anyone who thinks they care one iota about the fears and concerns they report should stay tuned for "Film At 11:00". They love drama and tragedy because it raises their ratings.

    Listen to the Eagles song "Dirty Laundry" from back in the 80's. Nothing has changed.
    Especially in L.A.

    Sent from my LM-G710 using HoFo mobile app

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    "We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde who
    comes on at five
    She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam
    in her eye
    It's interesting when people die-
    Give us dirty laundry,

    We can do 'The Innuendo'
    We can dance and sing
    When it's said and done we haven't told you a thing
    We all know that Crap is King
    Give us dirty laundry!"

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