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Thread: Rural T-Mobile Tower Retrofit with 5G Ready Antennas -Ephrata/Denver PA Lancaster Cou

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    Rural T-Mobile Tower Retrofit with 5G Ready Antennas -Ephrata/Denver PA Lancaster Cou

    Is this the T-Mobile rural expansion?

    I talked to the crew from TSC Tower out of NY and they said they are upgrading 5 towers in the Ephrata / Denver area of Lancaster County. As I understand it, the equipment is 5G ready when that goes live and they are running fiber to the equipment.




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    5G over low band only provides at best a 15% improvement and when you factor in you're taking some spectrum away form 4G it really doesn't benefit either 4G or 5G. Kind of dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by techfranz View Post
    Is this the T-Mobile rural expansion?
    Great post thanks!

    Were these NEW towers? Didn’t they already have fiber?


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    Rural T-Mobile Tower Retrofit with 5G Ready Antennas -Ephrata/Denver PA Lancaster Cou

    Quote Originally Posted by p6B5Nm5b View Post
    Great post thanks!

    Were these NEW towers? Didn’t they already have fiber?


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    The two towers I observed were existing towers both on water towers. This tower has very tiny antennas they took down and now they are putting the boxy type up. The other tower seemed like it had some of its newer, larger antennas removed and the shorter boxier ones installed.

    I have always suspected they use the local Cable ISP PenTeleData for backhaul since there is nothing else really available around here except Windstream. Windstream is however running a Fiber back bone for their DSL network to make the DSL faster. And some of the towers have Microwave dishes on them.

    I am guessing they purchased a dedicated fiber line from Windstream or PTD or else the tower tech was just saying they are using fiber on the tower itself.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    5G over low band only provides at best a 15% improvement and when you factor in you're taking some spectrum away form 4G it really doesn't benefit either 4G or 5G. Kind of dumb.
    I suppose this approach lets you claim you have 5G without actually providing 5G performance.

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    Cute on the "I love Kelsey" on it twice next to the ladder. Spelled differently each time. Oops!

    It's a pretty tall tower, so hopefully it would do well on B12 (already there?) & B71 LTE.

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    It's hard to tell because the photos aren't high resolution but it does appear to be B71 panels with the NR radios behind them up on the top rim.

    Quote Originally Posted by ericok View Post
    I suppose this approach lets you claim you have 5G without actually providing 5G performance.
    It's 5G in the technical sense but once you start reading in between the lines, yeah that pretty much sums it up. Marketing wise it's great because 99% of customers have no idea/couldn't care less about the difference between n71 and mmWave when it comes to 5G. To them 5G will just be something their phone does.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ericok View Post
    I suppose this approach lets you claim you have 5G without actually providing 5G performance.
    Exactly. And if an area has say 20X20 band 71 assuming 256 QAM and 2X2 MIMO that's bout 196 Mbps max speed if used for 4G only. But because you're splitting this spectrum up between 4G and 5G neither will attain that speed. Once again dumb. My area is going to be worse because T-Mobile only bough 15X15 even though three 5X5 blocks after theirs went unsold and they could have had 30X30 then it wouldn't have mattered as much

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    Are people not familiar with DSS?

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...eployment-game

    The important thing:

    Without DSS, an operator that has 20 MHz of mid-band spectrum would have to split that spectrum in two. In other words, they would have to allocate 10 MHz of spectrum to 4G LTE and cram all their LTE users into that 10 MHz of spectrum. Then the remaining 10 MHz of AWS spectrum could be used for 5G, even though initially there will only be a minimal number of 5G users. With DSS, an operator doesn’t have to split that mid-band spectrum or have dedicated spectrum for either 4G LTE or 5G. Instead they can share that 20 MHz of spectrum between the two technologies.


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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeuten View Post
    Are people not familiar with DSS?

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...eployment-game

    The important thing:

    Without DSS, an operator that has 20 MHz of mid-band spectrum would have to split that spectrum in two. In other words, they would have to allocate 10 MHz of spectrum to 4G LTE and cram all their LTE users into that 10 MHz of spectrum. Then the remaining 10 MHz of AWS spectrum could be used for 5G, even though initially there will only be a minimal number of 5G users. With DSS, an operator doesn’t have to split that mid-band spectrum or have dedicated spectrum for either 4G LTE or 5G. Instead they can share that 20 MHz of spectrum between the two technologies.


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    Keyword SHARING. You are still taking away 4G spectrum to use for 5G even if it's 1 MHz which by the way is nothing. Wow 5G a the speed of 2G. There is ZERO way to "share" spectrum without it negatively affecting 4G performance. That is just basic math

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Keyword SHARING. You are still taking away 4G spectrum to use for 5G even if it's 1 MHz which by the way is nothing. Wow 5G a the speed of 2G. There is ZERO way to "share" spectrum without it negatively affecting 4G performance. That is just basic math
    Obviously you can’t create something from nothing, but it won’t be “5G at the speed of 2G” it will be 5G at the 5G, and won’t negatively affect 4G. If 1% of users are on 5G handsets, you likely will not see a difference in performance. If 75% of users are on 5G, you will see a difference in performance, but at that point, is the spectrum not better dedicated to 5G? I don’t understand your logic here. It is spectrum sharing. If T-Mobile wanted to run 2 separate technologies in the same frequency, they can. But having 10x10 MHz out of 20x20 MHz of 600 MHz dedicated to 5G constantly as opposed to sometimes it being 15x15 MHz or 4x4 MHz seems like a less viable solution. 5G does not have higher priority or lower priority over LTE, it is similar to a QoS system. You have a really pissy response however so I’m guessing you won’t be happy no matter what happens. Hindsight is 20/20, we will see how things are in 3 years.


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    This whole spectrum sharing thing sounds too good to be true. I guess there's really no risk to it though, as if it's a total disaster, carriers can turn it off and revert back to LTE. mmWave 5G makes total sense for home internet and highly dense hot-spot like mobile applications, but sub-6 5G still doesn't make much sense, since the spectral efficiency gains are modest at best.

    The iPhone won't go to 5G until 2020, and they sell older models for a couple of years after that. Just as the last CDMA phones are being phased out now, it will take at least 3-4 years to even get 50% penetration of devices with sub-6 5G on them. It seems like a race to fill in a map, not actually roll out anything useful. Of course, I fully expect carriers to do something with 5G, even before they have maxed out LTE technology (so much for long term evolution lol), as they did the same thing is 2G and 3G before it.

    Meanwhile, there is a "race" to 5G. Why is it a race again?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeuten View Post
    Obviously you can’t create something from nothing, but it won’t be “5G at the speed of 2G” it will be 5G at the 5G, and won’t negatively affect 4G. If 1% of users are on 5G handsets, you likely will not see a difference in performance. If 75% of users are on 5G, you will see a difference in performance, but at that point, is the spectrum not better dedicated to 5G? I don’t understand your logic here. It is spectrum sharing. If T-Mobile wanted to run 2 separate technologies in the same frequency, they can. But having 10x10 MHz out of 20x20 MHz of 600 MHz dedicated to 5G constantly as opposed to sometimes it being 15x15 MHz or 4x4 MHz seems like a less viable solution. 5G does not have higher priority or lower priority over LTE, it is similar to a QoS system. You have a really pissy response however so I’m guessing you won’t be happy no matter what happens. Hindsight is 20/20, we will see how things are in 3 years.


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    The issue here if that was their plan they should have bought more 600 MHz spectrum instead of leaving some on the table.

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