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Thread: Why is Verizon all-in on Unlimited?

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    Why is Verizon all-in on Unlimited?

    So Verizon took T-Mobile's bait and started offering the fUDP over two years ago now, and they are seeing the results of the having a LOT of Unlimited customers on the network causing network strain given Verizon's poor spectrum position. Why didn't Verizon tier their plans out more, with a GB bucket as their mainstream offering, while also offering a more expensive version of fUDP as their Unlimited option so that they could better monetize everyone based on what they are willing to pay for? Adding per-line quotas that kick in a hard throttle for families would have been a good idea to reduce data usage too on bucketed plans, allowing parents to decide how to split up their full-speed data, after which each user would be hard throttled.

    In the same vein, however, why didn't Verizon bring back the hotspot UDP? Clearly the network can't handle a true UDP on hotspots at $80 or $100/mo, but why not offer it for $150/mo or more? There is a niche market for that, but that niche market could generate some serious profits, and it would probably still sell even with a 75GB depri threshold or something like that.

    Thoughts?

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    Why oh why....

    Signed,

    A post-paid customer that often encounters network congestion

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmmec View Post
    Why oh why....

    Signed,

    A post-paid customer that often encounters network congestion
    Yeah, I honestly think Verizon would have been better off never taking the bait, and sticking to their guns with data buckets, just offering better tools to manage them, and moving to hard throttles instead of overages to eliminate that issue. The amount of CAPEX that they are spending on small cells is insane just to handle the flood of data from UDPs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Yeah, I honestly think Verizon would have been better off never taking the bait, and sticking to their guns with data buckets, just offering better tools to manage them, and moving to hard throttles instead of overages to eliminate that issue. The amount of CAPEX that they are spending on small cells is insane just to handle the flood of data from UDPs.
    They would continue to lose customers without an unlimited data plan. Also, they have been deploying small cells well before they removed the plans. It is needed since they didn't buy much AWS-3 spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
    They would continue to lose customers without an unlimited data plan. Also, they have been deploying small cells well before they removed the plans. It is needed since they didn't buy much AWS-3 spectrum.
    They've pretty much jumped off the deep end at this point, but they could have avoided the need for many of the small cells if they had not offered UDPs, or offered them at much higher prices and kept per-GB bucket plans as their main offering.

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    Verizon was forced to offer unlimited because their porting ratio against T-Mobile was going up through the roof. In Q1 of 2017, Verizon was losing over 2.25 customers to T-Mobile for every T-Mobile customer gained:
    https://twitter.com/WaltBTIG/status/831566547860680704

    So why not offer a cheaper pay by the GB plan? Because they can make a lot more profit by having more low usage customers on expensive unlimited plans. Same reason why T-Mobile only offers unlimited plans.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    So Verizon took T-Mobile's bait and started offering the fUDP over two years ago now, and they are seeing the results of the having a LOT of Unlimited customers on the network causing network strain given Verizon's poor spectrum position. Why didn't Verizon tier their plans out more, with a GB bucket as their mainstream offering, while also offering a more expensive version of fUDP as their Unlimited option so that they could better monetize everyone based on what they are willing to pay for?
    In the first half of Q1 2017 Verizon had LOST over 400K customers. That is why they brought back unlimited. They were on pace to lose 800K customers in one quarter. Doing the math that's 3.2 million in a year. After they brought back unlimited they shrunk the loss to 200K which means they gained 200K for the 2nd half of Q1 2017. And until last quarter they gained phone customers ever since.

    Even if they had tripled the plans to say S-6 GB, M-12 GB, L-25 GB, XL-50 GB XXL-75 GB for the same price and also had fUDP but for had a $30 line fee. That would have slowed the bleeding but not stopped it

    Adding per-line quotas that kick in a hard throttle for families would have been a good idea to reduce data usage too on bucketed plans, allowing parents to decide how to split up their full-speed data, after which each user would be hard throttled.
    They have that. It's called Smart Family. Was called something else before but it's been available for years.

    In the same vein, however, why didn't Verizon bring back the hotspot UDP? Clearly the network can't handle a true UDP on hotspots at $80 or $100/mo, but why not offer it for $150/mo or more? There is a niche market for that, but that niche market could generate some serious profits, and it would probably still sell even with a 75GB depri threshold or something like that.
    You're main gripe is about unlimited data causing congestion and yet here you are suggesting the bringing back a hotspot with unlimited data? You do get if even just 1% sing up for that they could severely hamper the network. Also they DID bring it back for prepaid for $65 and it lasted a couple of months before Verizon canned it. You want to know why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Yeah, I honestly think Verizon would have been better off never taking the bait, and sticking to their guns with data buckets, just offering better tools to manage them, and moving to hard throttles instead of overages to eliminate that issue.
    they do have a hard throttle that eliminates overages. it's called safety mode and it's been around for 3-4 years

    What is Safety Mode?
    Safety Mode lets you keep using data at reduced speeds after your data allowance is used up for the month. You can stay online without worrying about overage fees.

    https://www.verizonwireless.com/supp...ode-faqs/#what

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    Why is Verizon all-in on Unlimited?

    No carrier is perfect. Every carrier has its congested spots, and no carrier can compete on the postpaid level without offering unlimited. Those are just facts.

    Some of us have been pointing out Verizon's congestion issues since before it was fashionable to do so. Yes, many areas have been densified to a great extent. But many have not. Some areas are relying on a macro grid spacing that dates back to the 90s for IS-95 CDMA on 800MHz. This doesn't work in 2019.

    Verizon needs to do something soon, or they are going to start losing subscribers. I believe it will be compounded with the CDMA shutoff at the end of the year. It's not just rural areas, either. I manage a business account with nearly 100 lines, and there are offices in some of our facilities (urban and suburban areas) where I still drop to CDMA.

    My personal AT&T phone usually has LTE in those places, and my T-Mobile line usually works too. My Sales and Executive staff won't put up with a phone that loses service indoors and they will be begging to switch to anything that works. If CDMA disappeared today, literally any other carrier would be a better choice in my use case. Combining the slow speeds with loss of rural and indoor coverage would be the final nail in the coffin.

    All the carriers offer unlimited, Verizon just catastrophically failed to plan for T-Mobile coming along and silently building up their network to be "good enough" for enough people to start cannibalizing their customer base by offering unlimited. Verizon thought they could reduce data demand by increasing prices so they wouldn't have to essentially rebuild their entire network. They failed to take the market forces into account. It was hubris.

    VZW spent years swindling loyal, paying customers out of their UDPs at any cost just to have to turn around and offer them again. They didn't ever think unlimited would be a thing ever again! I saw it as sweet irony, but from a network standpoint it's going to take a long time, if ever, before Verizon can actually recover from having to do the "unthinkable".


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

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    Here we go again, another thread from internet wizards trying to tell a multi-billion dollar business what they're doing wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmtvaquero View Post
    Here we go again, another thread from internet wizards trying to tell a multi-billion dollar business what they're doing wrong.
    Remember Go90? Let's not get started on the rest of their failures.

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using HoFo mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by clonehappy View Post
    Some of us have been pointing out Verizon's congestion issues since before it was fashionable to do so.
    Ideally Verizon would have preferred to keep offering tiered plans and maybe increasing the data, but T-Mobile kind of forced the issue. Verizon wasn't going to allow millions of customers to leave. Though ironically if that happened that would have relieved a lot of the congestion. And made T-Mobile's worse as they gained millions more new customers per year above what they already have been doing. Go to the T-Mobile boards you are starting to read more and more complaints about speeds.

    Verizon needs to do something soon, or they are going to start losing subscribers. I believe it will be compounded with the CDMA shutoff at the end of the year. It's not just rural areas, either. I manage a business account with nearly 100 lines, and there are offices in some of our facilities (urban and suburban areas) where I still drop to CDMA.
    When CDMA is shut off Verizon can finally repurpose all the spectrum. That will help.

    My personal AT&T phone usually has LTE in those places, and my T-Mobile line usually works too. My Sales and Executive staff won't put up with a phone that loses service indoors and they will be begging to switch to anything that works. If CDMA disappeared today, literally any other carrier would be a better choice in my use case. Combining the slow speeds with loss of rural and indoor coverage would be the final nail in the coffin.
    T-Mobile has used 1900 to 1700/2100 for calls for years. band 71 is just now being rolled out and no in most places and they have limited band 12. Now if T-Mobile can make calling work on bands 2 and 4 then Verizon should have no issue making calls work on bands 5 and 13. So your post makes no sense that T-Mobile will somehow work better than Verizon. How is T-Mobile's bands 2 and 4 better than Verizon's And Verizon has low band everywhere and T-Mobile doesn't yet

    All the carriers offer unlimited, Verizon just catastrophically failed to plan for T-Mobile coming along and silently building up their network to be "good enough" for enough people to start cannibalizing their customer base by offering unlimited. Verizon thought they could reduce data demand by increasing prices so they wouldn't have to essentially rebuild their entire network. They failed to take the market forces into account. It was hubris.
    CDMA still being around has hurt them. using that spectrum for LTE will help. As well soon they will be able to use band 46 and mot phones in the last 2 years or so have band 46 and Verizon is requiring band 48 on all new phones. Also as Verizon expands 5G and more 5G phones get out there that will relieve congestion on the LTE network

    VZW spent years swindling loyal, paying customers out of their UDPs
    I really can't stand when people use the word "loyal"

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmtvaquero View Post
    Here we go again, another thread from internet wizards trying to tell a multi-billion dollar business what they're doing wrong.
    It wouldn't be so bad if it weren't for the fact that a majority of the speculation is based on the incredibly inexact variable of speedtests which could be one tool in determining how a network is but since it's the only one most enthusiasts have access to that's what the opinions and undue panic are based on. Unless you're actually part of the tram actually monitoring the network (the carrier RF engineers) then you really don't have the tools to make a good guess as to the actual health of the network.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
    Remember Go90? Let's not get started on the rest of their failures.

    Sent from my SM-G975U1 using HoFo mobile app
    That's like saying Warren Buffet has made a few bad investments in his career. Yes, but look at his overall position, $90 Billion strong and growing.

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    If Verizon offered more reasonable prices on tiered plans, more people may chose tiered over unlimited. They'll be ok in the long run.

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