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Thread: Amazon's plans and looking forward

  1. #1
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    Amazon's plans and looking forward

    https://arstechnica.com/information-...k-launch-plan/

    I have no idea why it's taking so long to allow the Sprint/Tmo merger. There's plenty of innovation and potential for competition on the horizon.

    Dish + Google

    Amazon's satellite network

    OneWeb's satellite network

    Google's satellite network

    Let's get the merger over and look to the future! Apparently a whole lot of people can't comprehend how there will CONTINUE to be COMPETITION even after the number of cell carriers transforms from 4 to 3 (technically, for a little while). Such small minds can't even see the HUGE playing field just ahead and that it's going to take major players to compete. In a decade we will be using our phones and connecting to networks in very different ways.

    Sent from my F1 using HoFo mobile app

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    My mind may be small, but it's apparently large enough to know the difference between real extant competition and future vaporware.

    Using your argument, I'll be in favor of the merger any time AFTER the services you mentioned actually launch and become available. How long has Dish been talking about becoming a player in wireless without doing a damn thing about it? 5 years? 10? That must really have the incumbent wireless carriers quaking with fear...

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    Quote Originally Posted by cellphone-guy View Post
    Let's get the merger over and look to the future! Apparently a whole lot of people can't comprehend how there will CONTINUE to be COMPETITION even after the number of cell carriers transforms from 4 to 3 (technically, for a little while). Such small minds can't even see the HUGE playing field just ahead and that it's going to take major players to compete. In a decade we will be using our phones and connecting to networks in very different ways.
    There are legitimate reasons to be in favor of the merger, like rural 5G on B41, or the idea that Sprint can't survive on it's own, which may or may not be true. However, future competition that likely won't happen the way you are describing, and may or may not materialize at all is NOT valid logic to support the T-Sprint merger.

    The simple fact of the matter that everyone has to acknowledge, where you support the merger or not is that removing Sprint from the market WILL increase the price of entry for mobile service, and WILL decrease price and feature competition among the carriers. Those are the basic laws of economics and a bunch of future satellite systems that will likely never be a primary means of connectivity for mobile handsets are not going to change that.

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    Also, the idea that DISH and Google are going to build a wireless network is sort of insane. It's taken decades for the current networks to be built, and just to build a crappy network that's like Sprint's today would take a decade or more and billions upon billions of dollars. Once we lose the fourth competitor, having four competitors in the market is most likely lost forever.

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    I was just trying to figure out why my Sprint Phone read “Amazon” in the Ookla Speedtest App. Then I remembered I had Wi-Fi calling. It seems like Sprint’s Wi-Fi calling must be hosted on AWS.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    We shall see

    You guys are just thinking SMALL. Let's move forward. It's NEXT LEVEL time. I understand your arguments and perspective, but honestly think you're just not looking far enough ahead. You can spend your time analyzing every little detail concerning the current business model and ponder how moving from 4 to 3 major carriers might impact competition and prices, but things WILL change and they MUST change. That's how we got to where we're at right NOW. So let's get to it.

    Sent from my F1 using HoFo mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Also, the idea that DISH and Google are going to build a wireless network is sort of insane. It's taken decades for the current networks to be built, and just to build a crappy network that's like Sprint's today would take a decade or more and billions upon billions of dollars. Once we lose the fourth competitor, having four competitors in the market is most likely lost forever.
    I don't see it happening. Or it would be in certain cities only much like Google Fiber.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cellphone-guy View Post
    We shall see

    You guys are just thinking SMALL. Let's move forward. It's NEXT LEVEL time. I understand your arguments and perspective, but honestly think you're just not looking far enough ahead. You can spend your time analyzing every little detail concerning the current business model and ponder how moving from 4 to 3 major carriers might impact competition and prices, but things WILL change and they MUST change. That's how we got to where we're at right NOW. So let's get to it.
    It's not a matter of IF going from 4 to 3 carriers will reduce competition, we KNOW it will. Our opinions, as well as the government's opinions, can't be made about future technologies that may or may not work, but about what we have now and what impact this merger would have based on competition.

    If you want to support the merger for more widespread B41 5G or because Sprint will fail or whatever other intellectually honest reasons, fine, but you can't just claim it won't hurt competition when it clearly will.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    It's not a matter of IF going from 4 to 3 carriers will reduce competition, we KNOW it will.....
    I think this needs to be qualified as price competition will be reduced. The problem is that T-Mobile is currently unable to compete for the 5G customer and in many markets (e.g. NYC) is unable to grow because of excessive network congestion. T-Mobile needs Sprint's 2.5GHz licenses to continue to compete for customers in most big cities and to compete for 5G customers as that market matures. So, will the merger reduce competition? Yes. Will in increase competition? Yes again. You just have to qualify the type of competition you mean.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I think this needs to be qualified as price competition will be reduced. The problem is that T-Mobile is currently unable to compete for the 5G customer and in many markets (e.g. NYC) is unable to grow because of excessive network congestion. T-Mobile needs Sprint's 2.5GHz licenses to continue to compete for customers in most big cities and to compete for 5G customers as that market matures. So, will the merger reduce competition? Yes. Will in increase competition? Yes again. You just have to qualify the type of competition you mean.
    Price and features. Sprint is incentivized to offer stuff like 50GB and 100GB hotspots and some interesting international features to offer something different.

    T-Mobile's spectrum position is fine compared to AT&T and Verizon. In fact, they have a better spectrum position in NYC than Verizon, and Verizon is still the dominant carrier. To be fair, Verizon literally owns a lot of the ducts under the street, they are the cellular b-side ILEC, but from a pure spectrum position, T-Mobile is fine in comparison. In Manhattan, T-Mobile has 50x50 of usable spectrum, Verizon has 80x80, which is actually a pretty impressive spectrum position, except that seemingly everyone in NYC has Verizon. AT&T has a puny 60x55, which is interesting, as AT&T has a much better spectrum position nationally. AT&T is really in a world of hurt there. That may not be counting B66 though, as I used Spectrum Dashboard, which hasn't been updated in forever and a half. Sprint arguably has the best spectrum position in NYC, since they can fully utilize B41 given the densification of the network, and it shows. Their speeds are way better than AT&T, but their coverage isn't.

    So I'd argue that competition in markets like that is still better with Sprint as an independent company.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    but you can't just claim it won't hurt competition when it clearly will.

    You keep making such claim. But the new T-Mobile will have far more resources and spectrum to compete with AT&T and Verizon. They'll be able to spread their overhead costs over more customers thus they'll have more resources to expand coverage. They'll be able to better compete for for corporate customers and government contracts.

    AT&T and Verizon, and their fans, would love to keep T-Mobile and Sprint weak and small. They don't want them to become a stronger competitor.

    That's what the big two are quite frightened of. They don't want Legere coming after them with a lot more resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    You keep making such claim. But the new T-Mobile will have far more resources and spectrum to compete with AT&T and Verizon. They'll be able to spread their overhead costs over more customers thus they'll have more resources to expand coverage. They'll be able to better compete for for corporate customers and government contracts.
    T-Sprint would take Sprint off the market, and once Sprint is gone, you're stuck with T-Mobile pricing as the lowest priced option at best, so yes, prices go up basically on day one. Once that happens, T-Mobile has little incentive to undercut AT&T and Verizon as much, so they will creep their prices upwards a bit as well.

    T-Mobile and Sprint's customer bases are both highly urban/metro area focused. Their rural coverage sucks, even where they have it, and it makes the swiss cheese mess that AT&T and Verizon have in a lot of rural markets based on their status in most of those markets as Cellular A-side and B-side carriers look like a solid plate of steel in comparison.

    AT&T and Verizon, and their fans, would love to keep T-Mobile and Sprint weak and small. They don't want them to become a stronger competitor.
    T-Mobile is not weak. T-Mobile has done more to change the industry than any other carrier over the last 5 years. Sprint is in a fairly weak spot, but does keep prices down in general.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Price and features. Sprint is incentivized to offer stuff like 50GB and 100GB hotspots and some interesting international features to offer something different.

    T-Mobile's spectrum position is fine compared to AT&T and Verizon. In fact, they have a better spectrum position in NYC than Verizon, and Verizon is still the dominant carrier. To be fair, Verizon literally owns a lot of the ducts under the street, they are the cellular b-side ILEC, but from a pure spectrum position, T-Mobile is fine in comparison. In Manhattan, T-Mobile has 50x50 of usable spectrum, Verizon has 80x80, which is actually a pretty impressive spectrum position, except that seemingly everyone in NYC has Verizon. AT&T has a puny 60x55, which is interesting, as AT&T has a much better spectrum position nationally. AT&T is really in a world of hurt there. That may not be counting B66 though, as I used Spectrum Dashboard, which hasn't been updated in forever and a half. Sprint arguably has the best spectrum position in NYC, since they can fully utilize B41 given the densification of the network, and it shows. Their speeds are way better than AT&T, but their coverage isn't.

    So I'd argue that competition in markets like that is still better with Sprint as an independent company.
    At&t has 30 mhz of band 2, 20 mhz of band 30, 10 mhz of download b29, 20 mhz of band 5, 20mhz of band 66, 20 mhz of band 12 and 20 mhz of band 14 in NYC. 75 mhz by 65 mhz. They lost their band 4 holdings in the failed merger w tmus. Their biggest problem in NYC is lack of wideband. This is where VZW and tmus have an advantage.

    Sent from my SM-N960U 6GB aka Note 9 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeybutts View Post
    At&t has 30 mhz of band 2, 20 mhz of band 30, 10 mhz of download b29, 20 mhz of band 5, 20mhz of band 66, 20 mhz of band 12 and 20 mhz of band 14 in NYC. 75 mhz by 65 mhz. They lost their band 4 holdings in the failed merger w tmus. Their biggest problem in NYC is lack of wideband. This is where VZW and tmus have an advantage.

    Sent from my SM-N960U 6GB aka Note 9 using Tapatalk
    Ok, I didn't account for the B66. I didn't have any B4 in there, I didn't realize they had it and lost it, I just knew that they never deployed on B4 in NYC, so back in the day B4/17 phones really struggled there compared to B2/4/5/17 phones that would cruise along on B2. Then it happened all over again with phones that had B30 vs. ones that didn't.

    They have CA, and most of their spectrum is newer bands, so things get better as phones get replaced with ones that support those bands.

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    The problem with Sprint is this:

    Name:  Screenshot_2019-07-15 Sprint Corp Registered Shs Series -1- (S) Quote Morningstar.jpg
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    Since FEB/04/2008, the price of Sprint has closedover $10.00 once.

    The Value of Good Work, Ralph Waldo Emerson. If a man can...make a better mouse trap than his neighbors, though he builds his house in the woods, the world will make a beaten path to his door

    building a better mousetrap is being competitive. Sprint cannot build a better mousetrap...they just are unable to do it And they are not competitive. If they were competitive, that fact would be reflected in the price of the stock. No way does Sprint keep downward price pressue on VZW or T.

    The pea-green line on the top is the company that is competitive; that's T-Mobile. The dark green line, next, is VZW. Not competitive, but resourceful. The red line is T. T only lost 1/3 as much, roughly, as Sprint did in the same time period.

    Name:  Screenshot_2019-07-15 Sprint Corp Registered Shs Series -1- (S) Quote Morningstar(1).jpg
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    The stock price of these 4 companies reflects what they are. Like the Bill Parcells said: :"you are what you record says you are". There is nothing in Sprint's 11.5 year record to slightly suggest that they are competitive in any sense of the word.

    Walmat: low price, everyday. In terms of revenue, largest corporation in the world. Low price every day does not work for Sprint.

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