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Thread: Verizon says it has a secret 5G plan after T-Mobile CEO calls company ‘clueless’

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    Verizon says it has a secret 5G plan after T-Mobile CEO calls company ‘clueless’

    Does anyone know what this secret strategy is?

    https://www.theverge.com/2019/7/29/2...tmobile-legere

    On Friday, T-Mobile CEO John Legere called Verizon “clueless” and “dead in the water without a strategy” for 5G. Now, Verizon says it has a 5G strategy — it just isn’t sharing exactly what that strategy is.

    Legere claimed that Verizon lacked a plan to expand 5G beyond big cities since the carrier appeared to be relying entirely on millimeter wave, a type of radio wave that can deliver very fast speeds but only over short distances.

    Verizon’s advertising and public comments have been heavily focused on millimeter-wave deployment, but the company now tells The Verge that its 5G plans go beyond that when it comes to expanding 5G to the rest of the US.
    “The Internet wasn’t meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so it’s insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead — it’s a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text.” John Legere 1/5/2017

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    DSS or dynamic spectrum sharing. The same method att and T-Mobile will distribute 5G over low band. By the way T-Mobile makes a bid deal about 5G over low band when at best it will be 10% more efficient than 4G at 600 MHz.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    DSS or dynamic spectrum sharing. The same method att and T-Mobile will distribute 5G over low band. By the way T-Mobile makes a bid deal about 5G over low band when at best it will be 10% more efficient than 4G at 600 MHz.
    FWIW - 5G is likely to be 19% more efficient than LTE @ 600MHz and roughly 52% more efficient on mid band spectrum.

    http://wirelessone.news/spectrum/120...w-and-mid-band

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    CBRS?

    Why is 5G more efficient on mid-band than low-band? Also, the terminology is super annoying, as there are two sets of definitions. mid-band used to be 1.7-2.1ghz, now it seems to have eaten up high band (2.3ghz-2.7ghz) and gone all the way to around 4.2ghz, and mmWave is being called high band.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    CBRS?

    Why is 5G more efficient on mid-band than low-band? Also, the terminology is super annoying, as there are two sets of definitions. mid-band used to be 1.7-2.1ghz, now it seems to have eaten up high band (2.3ghz-2.7ghz) and gone all the way to around 4.2ghz, and mmWave is being called high band.
    So first off it's quite a complex topic and hard to summarize in a few sentences. Hard to summarize because of the complexity and the fact that I am certainly NOT an expert. However a quick and dirty answer is that mid band with its shorter wavelength makes MIMO, MU-MIMO (Multi User MIMO), spatial diversity and spatial multiplexing possible. These are (I believe) technically feasible with low band however the size of handsets would be prohibitive since spacing of multiple antennas would dictate the physical size.

    Seems to me the definitions "du jour" are:
    600 to 800 MHz: low band
    sub 6 GHz: mid band
    mmWave: high band or just mmWave

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    Quote Originally Posted by dffdce View Post
    So first off it's quite a complex topic and hard to summarize in a few sentences. Hard to summarize because of the complexity and the fact that I am certainly NOT an expert. However a quick and dirty answer is that mid band with its shorter wavelength makes MIMO, MU-MIMO (Multi User MIMO), spatial diversity and spatial multiplexing possible. These are (I believe) technically feasible with low band however the size of handsets would be prohibitive since spacing of multiple antennas would dictate the physical size.
    Ok that makes sense, as Sprint has been doing massive MIMO on B41/n41.

    Seems to me the definitions "du jour" are:
    600 to 800 MHz: low band
    sub 6 GHz: mid band
    mmWave: high band or just mmWave
    They are now, but not long ago, they weren't.

    This counts B30/41 as high-band:
    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...t-and-dish-own

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    Back around 2000 I used to work for AirTouch Cellular aka Verizon Wireless here in California. At the time we referred to the PCS 1900 spectrum used by our competitors PacBell, Sprint and Voicestream as "high band," and downplayed its relevance by telling customers it had poor in-building penetration and bad coverage in general.

    Little did we know at the time what a pivotal and extremely important role Band 2 1900 MHz would play in terms of density and data capacity.

    We also referred to our cellular spectrum as 800 MHz instead of 850 MHz like we do today.

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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    Back around 2000 I used to work for AirTouch Cellular aka Verizon Wireless here in California. At the time we referred to the PCS 1900 spectrum used by our competitors PacBell, Sprint and Voicestream as "high band," and downplayed its relevance by telling customers it had poor in-building penetration and bad coverage in general.

    Little did we know at the time what a pivotal and extremely important role Band 2 1900 MHz would play in terms of density and data capacity.

    We also referred to our cellular spectrum as 800 MHz instead of 850 MHz like we do today.
    Well, that was true of PCS back then when towers were spaced much farther apart, and is still true in much of the country, except that now every carrier has nationwide low-band (T-Mobile will after the repack anyway).

    Who was the other cellular carrier at that point?

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    I don’t think I would do well at Press Releases.

    “We will be using at some point in the future every band of spectrum that we currently own,” Hemmer said

    Better would use all the spectrum cause they ain’t got much....

    Verizon will get it done somehow even if they need to lease spectrum from other Carriers.

    They’ve made it all work so far, but Home Broadband will create a new strain on the Network.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Well, that was true of PCS back then when towers were spaced much farther apart, and is still true in much of the country, except that now every carrier has nationwide low-band (T-Mobile will after the repack anyway).

    Who was the other cellular carrier at that point?
    I believe AT&T TDMA was side A and Verizon Wireless was/is side B.

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    Quote Originally Posted by techfranz View Post
    They’ve made it all work so far, but Home Broadband will create a new strain on the Network.
    That will be only on mmWave. Their only "home" offering on sub-6 is a total joke, and is a tiny GB bucket that doesn't even compete with satellite.

    They're having to densify like crazy, which creates the highest quality network when and where it works, but also could create areas of mid-density that are really slow, and a network that is easily crushed by an event with a lot of people, versus T's network with more spectrum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dffdce View Post
    FWIW - 5G is likely to be 19% more efficient than LTE @ 600MHz and roughly 52% more efficient on mid band spectrum.

    http://wirelessone.news/spectrum/120...w-and-mid-band
    Low band goes from 600-1000 MHz so it's likely to be less than 19%. even at 19% big deal. All t-mobile had to do is buy a 4th block of 600 MHz in my area and would have had a 33% increase in bandwidth. Hell 3 blocks went unsold so that's 100% increase

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Low band goes from 600-1000 MHz so it's likely to be less than 19%. even at 19% big deal. All t-mobile had to do is buy a 4th block of 600 MHz in my area and would have had a 33% increase in bandwidth. Hell 3 blocks went unsold so that's 100% increase
    It's a big deal on their pretty pink map.

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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    On Friday, T-Mobile CEO John Legere called Verizon “clueless” and “dead in the water without a strategy” for 5G.
    I think Verizon would've been far from dead in the water even without deploying 5G at all. Sure, people who have to have the lastest Gs no matter what would have left, but I think the majority wouldn't care.

    I don't see anything wrong with their current strategy of using only millimeter-wave for 5G because that's where it makes the most sense. As was mentioned by previous posters, 5G doesn't give significant advantage for <2 GHz bands, so it doesn't make sense to take away low and mid band spectrum from LTE that all current phones can already use.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jack4 View Post
    I think Verizon would've been far from dead in the water even without deploying 5G at all. Sure, people who have to have the lastest Gs no matter what would have left, but I think the majority wouldn't care.

    I don't see anything wrong with their current strategy of using only millimeter-wave for 5G because that's where it makes the most sense. As was mentioned by previous posters, 5G doesn't give significant advantage for <2 GHz bands, so it doesn't make sense to take away low and mid band spectrum from LTE that all current phones can already use.
    The ironic thing is that T-Mobile current 5G offerings also ONLY use mmwave. Even if they had mmwave on low band deployed therr are ZERO phones that can use it.

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