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Thread: T-Mobile three new Un-Carrier moves

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Generators only help if you've similarly protected your backhaul. Since T-Mobile is well known for saving money by going with budget backhaul, generators at cell sites might not do a lot of good.
    Do any of them protect backhaul? The only way I can think of to do that would be to have a microwave network, tree, or chain that has at least two different fiber connection in it with the logic to fail the whole thing over to one or the other.

    From what I've heard, SoLinc is the only carrier that's really serious about reliability, Verizon would be the best nationwide, followed by AT&T, and distantly by Sprint and finally T-Mobile. I'd have to hope that USCC is serious about it as well, given the extremely rural areas they cover, and the poor quality/reliability of the power grid in those areas, even more so than in urban/suburban areas.

    After what happened in CA with the power shutdowns, I'm not too confident in any of these companies keeping things running when commercial power fails, on top of an already poorly maintained and unreliable power grid.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Do any of them protect backhaul? .....
    It all depends on what you mean by "protect". In an extreme sense this could imply microwave and satellite backups, etc. In another sense it could just mean taking care that your backhaul will continue to run in the event of a power outage. If your backhaul is provided by the local cable TV franchise, who only provides an hour of battery backup for their system, this could be problematic.
    Donald Newcomb

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    It all depends on what you mean by "protect". In an extreme sense this could imply microwave and satellite backups, etc. In another sense it could just mean taking care that your backhaul will continue to run in the event of a power outage. If your backhaul is provided by the local cable TV franchise, who only provides an hour of battery backup for their system, this could be problematic.
    I was thinking redundant paths, but if you're looking at power, Metro-E should be passive back to the cable headend, which should have diesel backup. Cell towers aren't running off of regular cable connections that require a passive node in the field.

  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    I was thinking redundant paths, but if you're looking at power, Metro-E should be passive back to the cable headend, which should have diesel backup. Cell towers aren't running off of regular cable connections that require a passive node in the field.
    A lot of the cell sites around here have Ciena or similar eMUX equipment on site for fiber termination, but those are powered by the same rectifiers that power the site. If the tower has a generator then backhaul should stay up.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Do any of them protect backhaul? The only way I can think of to do that would be to have a microwave network, tree, or chain that has at least two different fiber connection in it with the logic to fail the whole thing over to one or the other.

    From what I've heard, SoLinc is the only carrier that's really serious about reliability, Verizon would be the best nationwide, followed by AT&T, and distantly by Sprint and finally T-Mobile. I'd have to hope that USCC is serious about it as well, given the extremely rural areas they cover, and the poor quality/reliability of the power grid in those areas, even more so than in urban/suburban areas.

    After what happened in CA with the power shutdowns, I'm not too confident in any of these companies keeping things running when commercial power fails, on top of an already poorly maintained and unreliable power grid.
    That's why I maintain a line with Southern LINC. Every site has 7 days of on-site backup power and more than 90% of their sites now have diverse & redundant backhaul which usually consists of a fiber connection + 2 microwave paths that can be used to recover links to other sites, or use one of the other sites as backhaul in case of a hardline or alternate path failure.

    I don't think AT&T is even that stringent with their FirstNet builds to be honest. The main difference is SoLINC is not running the network for profit, they are solely there to support Southern Company's power companies such as Alabama, Georgia, and Gulf power. Any excess capacity is sold to consumers and businesses in order to recoup some of the operating expenditures. Even without consumers, the network would still be operated and maintained.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by CircuitSwitched View Post
    That's why I maintain a line with Southern LINC. Every site has 7 days of on-site backup power and more than 90% of their sites now have diverse & redundant backhaul which usually consists of a fiber connection + 2 microwave paths that can be used to recover links to other sites, or use one of the other sites as backhaul in case of a hardline or alternate path failure.

    I don't think AT&T is even that stringent with their FirstNet builds to be honest. The main difference is SoLINC is not running the network for profit, they are solely there to support Southern Company's power companies such as Alabama, Georgia, and Gulf power. Any excess capacity is sold to consumers and businesses in order to recoup some of the operating expenditures. Even without consumers, the network would still be operated and maintained.
    Yep they are much much much much more reliable than firstnet will ever be. Night and day difference when profit comes into play.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by CircuitSwitched View Post
    That's why I maintain a line with Southern LINC. Every site has 7 days of on-site backup power and more than 90% of their sites now have diverse & redundant backhaul which usually consists of a fiber connection + 2 microwave paths that can be used to recover links to other sites, or use one of the other sites as backhaul in case of a hardline or alternate path failure.

    I don't think AT&T is even that stringent with their FirstNet builds to be honest. The main difference is SoLINC is not running the network for profit, they are solely there to support Southern Company's power companies such as Alabama, Georgia, and Gulf power. Any excess capacity is sold to consumers and businesses in order to recoup some of the operating expenditures. Even without consumers, the network would still be operated and maintained.
    SoLinc is really, really impressive, but when you think about it, they are running it FOR the times when the power doesn't work so that they can restore power since they ARE the power company. It's sort of ironic though that the power company has that little faith in their own system's reliability.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    SoLinc is really, really impressive, but when you think about it, they are running it FOR the times when the power doesn't work so that they can restore power since they ARE the power company. It's sort of ironic though that the power company has that little faith in their own system's reliability.
    If you've ever experienced the aftermath of a Cat 5 Hurricane or an EF5 tornado then you'd fully understand how vunerable our power grid really is. When an EF4 came through in 2011, we were without power for a long time at no fault of Alabama Power. Southern LINC had fully recovered their system within less than 24 hours while all the other phone companies took days and weeks to fully recover.

  9. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by CircuitSwitched View Post
    If you've ever experienced the aftermath of a Cat 5 Hurricane or an EF5 tornado then you'd fully understand how vunerable our power grid really is. When an EF4 came through in 2011, we were without power for a long time at no fault of Alabama Power. Southern LINC had fully recovered their system within less than 24 hours while all the other phone companies took days and weeks to fully recover.
    Our power grids nationwide are awful. They vary from state to state and even town to town depending on the utility, but in general, they're awful. There are hundreds of thousands, probably millions of miles of utility that is above ground that should be buried so it's not vulnerable to storm damage, and here in CT, most of the aboveground lines are the old school yard arms with individual wires on them, not modern aerial cable systems that are much more resilient. The town I grew up in has a muni utility that does it right and uses the Hendrix Aerial Cable System, and has beautifully constructed lines with neatly tucked in wires and yard arms for underground feeds off of poles that are out of harm's way, unlike most of the state where Eversource, a private utility, is using 1900's technology, and the wires are just sitting there waiting to get ripped down by a tree limb. We also have tons of poles that are bent, leaning, etc, if they were all strong and upright, and replaced on a reasonable basis, or replaced permanently with steel or fiberglass in high load areas, then they wouldn't go down so easily. It would also take better planning and upgrades by other utilities (phone, cable, etc) to not overload poles and upgrade their wiring, as well as remove abandoned wiring that's just sitting there adding load to the poles for no reason other than laziness and sloppiness.

    On the tramission side, where possible, there should be rings so that they are somewhat redundant, at least when they're not at full load, as power can be routed around the other direction if a transmission line goes down, but that's unusual, since they are usually above the trees and basically impervious to storm damage, at least if they are constructed properly. Old, weak towers should be replaced with modern strong steel monopoles with good foundations that can withstand storms.

    At some point, there will always be a few outages, and not everywhere can go underground (ledge, swamp, etc) but if the grid is built to be more resilient with better materials and workmanship, and lines that should be underground are underground, in addition to better circuit design, then the number of outages would be far lower, and the power company could restore all outages within a day, maybe two at most, not a week or more like it takes today to go and do a half-***** hack together job of the 1900's style electric wiring after a major hurricane, tornado, or other storm. Anything less is just negligence.

    Even with a well-built grid, it is a good idea to have backup power for telecom infrastructure, but if it is needed more than maybe once a decade, you've got a negligent utility who can't learn from their own failures.

  10. #130
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    I'd like to suggest to any other states looking to settle this lawsuit, that in addition to jobs, rates, and coverage guarantees, they get T-Mo to commit to better offers on T-Mo Tuesday! The last couple of weeks have been pretty lackluster...

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    I'd like to suggest to any other states looking to settle this lawsuit, that in addition to jobs, rates, and coverage guarantees, they get T-Mo to commit to better offers on T-Mo Tuesday! The last couple of weeks have been pretty lackluster...
    That's one reason I left T-Mobile. I was expecting a free Waygu steak dinner for four at a high end steak house or at least a dinner for four at Fogo de Chão Brazilian Steakhouse. Instead I got an offer for one free Burger King Whopper. Legere needs to step up his game. You can be sure he won't be serving Whoppers at dinners at his new house in Florida.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CanadianAngela View Post
    That's one reason I left T-Mobile. I was expecting a free Waygu steak dinner for four at a high end steak house or at least a dinner for four at Fogo de Chão Brazilian Steakhouse. Instead I got an offer for one free Burger King Whopper. Legere needs to step up his game. You can be sure he won't be serving Whoppers at dinners at his new house in Florida.
    No, but he might post a video of himself making a Crock-Pot dinner consisting solely of free food from T-Mobile Tuesday...



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