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Thread: Texas Rural site upgrades not getting AWS?

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    Texas Rural site upgrades not getting AWS?

    The title says it all, why are a considerable number of South Texas Rural upgraded sites not getting AWS installed?

    Few Examples, all of these sites had complete equipment/antenna change-outs

    Port Lavaca Texas pop 12,248

    Port O’Connor Texas pop 1,253

    Tivoli Texas pop 479

    Rockport Texas pop 8,799


    Two examples of upgraded rural sites with AWS Added, no 3G or 4G;
    Weedhaven Texas pop 0

    Seadrift Texas pop 1,364


    I have personally used all of these sites with these TMO phones; iPhone 6s Plus, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone XR

    The two AWS equipped sites easily get speeds of 100 & 50 down respectively

    The non AWS sites are way slower with Port Lavaca being the worst
    Speedtest in Port Lavaca at 5:25PM today;


    I was told that all of these new antenna installs were AWS compatible, but came without the AWS Radios??

    they have the AWS licenses for these areas with at least 20X20 Mhz


    They seem to be only running 5x5 Mhz of LTE 600 Mhz right now

    I have seen fishing tournaments and festivals overwhelm these “rural” TMO non AWS upgraded sites to where they are useless until the event is over

    Is it a cost issue? Is AWS Radio Equipment that expensive?
    Baffled....

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    Perhaps those sites are currently utilizing T-1's for backhaul and are awaiting Fiber? It does seem odd that they would deploy B2 and not 66(4). A number of rural sites in northern Michigan are only running 5x5 B71 and 5x5 B12 but speeds are very good so I am thinking they are waiting for some kind of an upgrade in your area.

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    That 20 MHz of AWS is probably including the 10 MHZ download they have of band 66 which may not be able to be deployed yet, band 66 was used by federal agencies and if they are using it in an area they have several years to move off that spectrum. As far as I can tell T-Mobile has 10X10 MHz in band 4 and another 10X10 in band 66 which are adjacent to each other so they do have a contiguous swath of 20X20 when they do deploy it.

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    There are a lot of places where T-Mobile doesn't deploy their full allocation of spectrum. May be that they're saving AWS for 5G? 15 MHz of 600 plus 20 MHz of AWS would make a good 5G setup.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    There are a lot of places where T-Mobile doesn't deploy their full allocation of spectrum. May be that they're saving AWS for 5G? 15 MHz of 600 plus 20 MHz of AWS would make a good 5G setup.
    It's shows they have 20 MHz download for 600 not 15 MHz. Anyway spectrum is not going to be separated by 4G and 5G it's doing to be used dynamically based on need. So there is no need to hold anything back. they should be deploying it all because they are going to need it all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    It's shows they have 20 MHz download for 600 not 15 MHz. Anyway spectrum is not going to be separated by 4G and 5G it's doing to be used dynamically based on need. So there is no need to hold anything back. they should be deploying it all because they are going to need it all.
    At any given time, a given slice of spectrum can be used for either LTE or 5G NR but not both. The minimum allocation for LTE band 71 is 5x5 MHz. This means that they can have 5 MHz of LTE and 15 MHz of 5G NR in a 20 MHz block or some other combination but the total can't be more than 20 MHz. Now a 5G phone will aggregate LTE and 5G NR simultaneously. It's easy to say that the system will use dynamic allocation but I have not seen any sign that it will actually happen any time soon. So far, every report I've seen of band-71 deployment says that only 5x5 MHz is being deployed. Why? I don't know but until I see something different, I'll just have to go with the theory that they plan to use 5 MHz for LTE and the rest for 5G.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    It's easy to say that the system will use dynamic allocation but I have not seen any sign that it will actually happen any time soon.
    except for the fact that T-Mobile at&t and Verizon have ALL said that is how they are doing 5G over sub 6 GHz and in the case of at&t and Verizon they are doing that next year.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/opera...ycle-exec-says

    Like competitor Verizon, AT&T in the future plans to use dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology, which Elbaz said the carrier is now starting to test and plans to deploy in 2020.

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...unch-next-year

    'LOS ANGELES—Verizon plans to introduce dynamic spectrum sharing (DSS) technology into its network next year

    So far, every report I've seen of band-71 deployment says that only 5x5 MHz is being deployed. Why? I don't know but until I see something different, I'll just have to go with the theory that they plan to use 5 MHz for LTE and the rest for 5G.
    5 MHz for LTE is useless and if true is another reason to hold off on switching to T-Mobile. As it is, in my area they are spectrum poor that 15 MHz downlink for band 71 WOULD have helped a lot. As far as downlink right now they have 20 MHz of band 4. Some of which is still being used for UTMS. And I'm not sure how much. So that means no more than 15 MHz of band 4 for LTE. 5 MHz of band 66, 10 MHz of Band 2. Which they have chosen not to deploy for some reason. 5 MHz of band 12 and now you say only 5 MHz of band 71.

    So that would be a total of 30 MHz downlink in my area for LTE. And since you can't aggregate both 600 and 700 MHz the max you can get is 25 MHz. Meanwhile Verizon has twice that. As I said T-Mobile just let three 5X5 blocks of band 71 go unsold in my area which would have been fine if they wanted to do 10X10 LTE and 20X20 for 5G or vise versa. Which tells me all this lowband 5G stuff was thrown together ad-hoc. Otherwise they would have been more aggressive in bidding. And yes at&t an Verizon are just as dumb for also doing low band 5G

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    I've sworn off getting embroiled in debates about what T-Mobile might do in the future. I thought they'd deploy as much band 71 for LTE as possible while awaiting 5G. Wrong! I thought they'd always deploy mid-band on low-band sites. Wrong! I'm a proven failure at predicting what they will do. I'll discuss but not predict the future. I'm just stating what they have actually done, so far.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I've sworn off getting embroiled in debates about what T-Mobile might do in the future. I thought they'd deploy as much band 71 for LTE as possible while awaiting 5G. Wrong! I thought they'd always deploy mid-band on low-band sites. Wrong! I'm a proven failure at predicting what they will do. I'll discuss but not predict the future. I'm just stating what they have actually done, so far.
    I hear that. I enjoy discussions over what a carrier "could" do (i.e. they deploy all their spectrum everywhere), and what they may do in the future. But predictions? It's tricky; VZW at least divides up the US into regions, the regions get a budget to spend as they see fit. Some regions seem to upgrade the 100K+ cities and leave the rest a few years behind; some seem to upgrade a whole area in lockstep (like California, it seems like even rural sites are pretty up to date); some seem to go through and do some fraction of the area each year, so a site might get upgrades every 3 or 4 years or whatever.

    In my area (eastern Iowa), VZW has 4 bands running in town (in order of how much I see it, 4 (AWS), 13 (700), 2 (1900) and 5 (850)) but right out of town it's 100% band 13 (700) which is a tad slow these days (like 3mbps is typical ). I would have predicted not needing all 4 bands here yet, but having at least band 5 running on rural sites. It's the exact opposite, prediction thwarted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEDIX1011 View Post
    The title says it all, why are a considerable number of South Texas Rural upgraded sites not getting AWS installed?

    Few Examples, all of these sites had complete equipment/antenna change-outs

    Port Lavaca Texas pop 12,248

    Port O’Connor Texas pop 1,253

    Tivoli Texas pop 479

    Rockport Texas pop 8,799


    Two examples of upgraded rural sites with AWS Added, no 3G or 4G;
    Weedhaven Texas pop 0

    Seadrift Texas pop 1,364


    I have personally used all of these sites with these TMO phones; iPhone 6s Plus, iPhone 8 Plus, iPhone XR

    The two AWS equipped sites easily get speeds of 100 & 50 down respectively

    The non AWS sites are way slower with Port Lavaca being the worst
    Speedtest in Port Lavaca at 5:25PM today;


    I was told that all of these new antenna installs were AWS compatible, but came without the AWS Radios??

    they have the AWS licenses for these areas with at least 20X20 Mhz


    They seem to be only running 5x5 Mhz of LTE 600 Mhz right now

    I have seen fishing tournaments and festivals overwhelm these “rural” TMO non AWS upgraded sites to where they are useless until the event is over

    Is it a cost issue? Is AWS Radio Equipment that expensive?
    Baffled....
    TMO has lots of areas where they don't use AWS. Rural areas are big

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

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    Texas Rural site upgrades not getting AWS?

    Quote Originally Posted by thotguy31 View Post
    TMO has lots of areas where they don't use AWS. Rural areas are big
    But two of these areas are very congested, to the point of uselessness

    And this is with recently installed all brand new antennas and ground equipment

    So a community with a population of 8,000 to 12,000 doesn’t deserve AWS even though AWS compatible antennas were installed, and deserve to be congested?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEDIX1011 View Post
    But two of these areas are very congested, to the point of uselessness

    And this is with recently installed all brand new antennas and ground equipment

    So a community with a population of 8,000 to 12,000 doesn’t deserve AWS even though AWS compatible antennas were installed, and deserve to be congested?
    Exactly an area may be rural but town in that "rural" area maybe be highly populated. I live in rural area. The whole county only has 16,000 the county seat has about 1/4 of the population which also isn't much in total but the town only takes up only 1.5% of the county. So it is definitely more densely populated than the rest of county so why not deploy AWS there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    ...... so why not deploy AWS there?
    You'd think they'd be able to look at census data and predict which cells need mid-band but they may be waiting for the sectors to show up as congested before they decide to spend the penny on the extra hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I've sworn off getting embroiled in debates about what T-Mobile might do in the future. I thought they'd deploy as much band 71 for LTE as possible while awaiting 5G. Wrong! I thought they'd always deploy mid-band on low-band sites. Wrong! I'm a proven failure at predicting what they will do. I'll discuss but not predict the future. I'm just stating what they have actually done, so far.
    To me it seems they upgrade cell sites based on site usage and spectrum capacity available in the area. They're unpredictable and me thinks they upgrade to whatever gear they have in the stockpile in that region. As for 5G, its an obvious "we're first" scenario where they want to market the hell out of "we had the first nationwide 5G network!!" even though 2 phones will support it at launch and likely will spend most of its time on LTE due to 5G being so immature in SOCs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MEDIX1011 View Post
    But two of these areas are very congested, to the point of uselessness

    And this is with recently installed all brand new antennas and ground equipment

    So a community with a population of 8,000 to 12,000 doesn’t deserve AWS even though AWS compatible antennas were installed, and deserve to be congested?
    You would have to ask them that. It's likely TMO doesn't have very big market share. It's known ( I think) that TMobile has spectrum on some areas pretty much rural where they aren't using Midband. Some areas are only B12 and some 12/71. TMO likes to stretching out as far as they can and call it a network

    Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

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