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Thread: AT&T AT&T Fires Up Low-Band 5G network w/Maps

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    No new 3G activations on AT&T starting on Feb 19th 2020 from what I've read. Would they be protecting 3G spectrum anywhere at this point or are you just looking at that specific market in that thought? AT&T has so many bands and there's no good info generally available on what areas have what bands in what strengths.

    I 'believe' when they say sub 6ghz radio they mean every band on the phone is capable of that. There's no phones out yet that support both sub 6ghz and mmwave so my earlier assertion that AT&T is not going to offer both to non commercial customers may be way off base.

    Jack is right when he says customers that bought 5G phones up to this point got short changed.
    Well, I would say they are going to keep UMTS around for a couple years so I don't think we'll see them shut it down in areas like NYC. I could be wrong.

    As far as 5G bands, we'll have to wait and see what the FCC certifications list for NR bands on the AT&T Note 10+ 5G. Generalizing Sub-6 doesn't necessarily mean it'll support every band on 5G. For example, the Galaxy S9/Note 9 supported B14 out of the box but not B14 carrier aggregation. And the S10/current Note 10 support upload carrier aggregation on AT&T but only 5+5 or 66+66. The baseband in the S10/N10 theoretically should support 4+14 and other upload combos that AT&T is deploying and people are starting to see on the iPhone 11. Current Samsungs may support it, but they weren't certified for it.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    I'm guessing they'll shut down B5 LTE there instead of UMTS. Manually check both to see which one is offline Joey. All B5 LTE disappeared in my area about a week ago but 3G is still up and running. I'd say they'll be deploying n2 in areas where they don't have CLR, given their PCS holdings in many areas.


    The upcoming Note 10+ 5G on AT&T will be sub-6 NR so it could support these other 5G bands: n2, n12, n14, n29, n30, and n66. Although given Samsungs history of not being future proof, I wouldn't hold my breath. I'm waiting to find out what exact model this is and check the FCC certs.
    I just checked, wcdma is up and running. I guess they moved band 5 LTE to NR.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk

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    Interestingly the elite and extra plans on commercial and firstnet subs get 5g tower access (with appropriate handset) but no other plan does.
    I wonder if firstnet also has access to 5g+ (mmwave) which is currently only for business customers give firstnet is considered a "business" line
    Last edited by ymarker; 11-23-2019 at 10:25 AM.

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeybutts View Post
    I just checked, wcdma is up and running. I guess they moved band 5 LTE to NR.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    All LTE and 5G spectrum will be shared later on from what I have read where LTE and 5G coexist. This allows a small rollout of 5G but 5G won’t be fully utilized for now as most devices won”t have it.

    If I was ATT, I would share all LTE and 5G spectrum and still keep a small spectrum allocation for UMTS+ for range. Should be plenty of spectrum available.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    Well, I would say they are going to keep UMTS around for a couple years so I don't think we'll see them shut it down in areas like NYC. I could be wrong.

    As far as 5G bands, we'll have to wait and see what the FCC certifications list for NR bands on the AT&T Note 10+ 5G. Generalizing Sub-6 doesn't necessarily mean it'll support every band on 5G. For example, the Galaxy S9/Note 9 supported B14 out of the box but not B14 carrier aggregation. And the S10/current Note 10 support upload carrier aggregation on AT&T but only 5+5 or 66+66. The baseband in the S10/N10 theoretically should support 4+14 and other upload combos that AT&T is deploying and people are starting to see on the iPhone 11. Current Samsungs may support it, but they weren't certified for it.
    It would be a serious rip off of users if they don't enable sub6 5G on several bands for ATT now then they roll out DSS later in 2020 that supports several bands, but I see what you're saying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    It would be a serious rip off of users if they don't enable sub6 5G on several bands for ATT now then they roll out DSS later in 2020 that supports several bands, but I see what you're saying.
    The bands are getting to be confusing now. With that being said, AT&T should in NYC and by me meet the tower every 1000 feet or whatnot with small cells. Their buildout is in process of deploying the fiber optics backbone to make this density possible. I guess the actual small cell build will be connected to this dense fiber backbone. Speeds should be super high when small cells are in usage and slower when added range is needed.

    I see 5G+ working amazingly well in dense cities with slower speeds when not in range but still faster than LTE speeds.

    In the rural areas, speeds will go up with 5G and better spectrum allocation and perhaps improved backhaul when possible but you won’t have small cells all over and it will definitely be harder tp upgrade backhaul. Perhaps added microwave or Powerline technologies where fiber optic costs are too high though fiber is making its way in as well. Could be increased use of satellite or other innovative methods as well.

    Had a hiccup on LTE the other day where my connection was unstable on LTE which I promptly reported to Mark the Spot and unlike other times where they still said known issues which was before they improved the issues and they closed the issue out and this time it is actually working better. Perhaps the work played into it with a tower shut down or work that took out part of the network. AT&T was a little late building out here and rebuilding the network but as we head to 5G+, AT&T is definitely up to the task and has a superior network. Verizon for 5G won’t have any major advantages over AT&T in many markets such as NYC. AT&T’s fiber rebuild in my area alone is huge and covering everything unlike before when you had much less fiber optics and significantly weaker density than Verizon. With 5G, it is possible for AT&T to be more dense than Verizon or they could be similar and speeds will just depend on their spectrum portfolios and the fact that Verizon will have higher prices and less overall data usage with more restrictions to keep speeds higher.

    I am looking forward to upgrade my next device to 5G+ as soon as prices go down assuming my existing plan will work on it for unlimited tablet data. 5G is the future.

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    Now I’m wondering if AT&T will release a hotspot with sub 6 MHz 5G. The current 5G hotspot they are only selling to business accounts looks like it only has the Qualcomm x50 which only does mm wave. I believe the x55 does sub 6 (pending the antenna combo installed).


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeInPa View Post
    Now I’m wondering if AT&T will release a hotspot with sub 6 MHz 5G. The current 5G hotspot they are only selling to business accounts looks like it only has the Qualcomm x50 which only does mm wave. I believe the x55 does sub 6 (pending the antenna combo installed).


    Sent from my iPhone using HoFo
    The X55 will support both mmwave and sub 6ghz but won't be out till next year. It will also support spectrum sharing for DSS. This will become the default modem in phones that cost over $250 next year not just high end phones. Apple, LG, Samsung, Motorola, Nokia including in phones with 600 series cpu's. The 2020 iPhones will have 3 antennas in them for this modem.

    Specs -

    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn...n-x55-5g-modem

    https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/06/...dem-next-year/

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    The X55 will support both mmwave and sub 6ghz but won't be out till next year. It will also support spectrum sharing for DSS. This will become the default modem in phones that cost over $250 next year not just high end phones. Apple, LG, Samsung, Motorola, Nokia including in phones with 600 series cpu's. The 2020 iPhones will have 3 antennas in them for this modem.

    Specs -

    https://www.qualcomm.com/products/sn...n-x55-5g-modem

    https://www.engadget.com/2019/09/06/...dem-next-year/
    This was well known for awhile now. 2020 allows for integrated 5G chips and for full 5G access on both low and high bands. My next devices will all have these newer chips as its not worthwhile to upgrade till then. Although as 4G LTE will also run on the same networks in the future, the older devices will get same coverage with LTE with lower speeds and higher latency.

    AT&T will definitely have equipment running on both low and high bands of 5G. In 2020 and beyond there should be plenty of hardware from multiple vendors being released. Also Apple will make their own modems in the future and there are unknowns with Huawei for chip licensing and also you have other 5G chip makers. The tiein to Qualcomm for 5G chips will keep the prices for devices higher at first.

    My ideal device is a foldable with a superior design so I just need one single device with 5G chips. Samsung’s fold was too pricey, not big enough after it unfolds and a poor design. Future devices will come out as 5G reshapes the whole communication landscape.

  10. #40
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    That's some pretty impressive coverage, even covering some very sprawly/exurban areas. Sadly, that means a loss of a bit of B5 LTE, although I'm not sure what B5 really does anyway, being a small 5x5 amongst a lot of other spectrum that they have deployed on other bands.

    I'm just excited for fiber and site upgrades, as I'm happy with my Note 9, and it will benefit from 5G as sites have faster backhaul and existing 4G bands fully deployed. I got 460mbps on a 5G mmWave test site at Warner Brothers with the Note 9 using it's "5GE" fake 5G, so I know the potential is there for some serious speed for existing LTE devices with high category modems and carrier aggregation.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    Hmm. Range on n5 should be a lot further than that given the propagation of B5 LTE.
    It seems like they picked an average number for those markets. For New York and Providence, for example, few towers push LTE over 2 miles, so it's a reasonable number. If they started deploying on mountaintop sites in NH or in the middle of the plains, they could surely push it way farther.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Band 2 is 1900 and doesn't have near the range of band 5. Less than half. Which means deploying more equipment. Which means more $$$ spent
    Nope. It just means you'll drop to LTE if you are on the very edge of the coverage of that tower, since LTE can use B12/14.

    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    But, in the prehistoric days when the possible cell phone spectrum was band 5 (850mhz) or band 2 (PCS), these would have already been PCS-only markets, so presumably they already have enough site density to provide adequate coverage on band 2.
    That's also a good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    For example, the Galaxy S9/Note 9 supported B14 out of the box but not B14 carrier aggregation.
    Can they fix that with new firmware? Or does it not matter, since commercial users only get B14 when nothing else is available? I've gotten B14 a few times on my Note 9, it works fine, nothing spectacular speed wise.

  11. #41
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    Any idea when 5g be available in Chicago ?
    Two great smartphone apps to find cell towers and map actual coverage areas
    1. Cellmapper
    2. OpenSignal
    If You're With AT&T Wireless as your Cell Provider, Use the "AT&T Mark The Spot App" to report an issues with your service, like, no connection, slow speeds, no coverage, drop calls...etc

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Can they fix that with new firmware? Or does it not matter, since commercial users only get B14 when nothing else is available? I've gotten B14 a few times on my Note 9, it works fine, nothing spectacular speed wise.

    They probably could, but the device wasn't certified through the FCC to include 14 in the combos. I'm not sure if it would require running it through again for certification or if the FCC would allow a simple Permissive Change to enable it. At this point, it doesn't appear the device will get support for it but you never know.

    It seems they have eased up on when commercial users utilize 14 in the combo pool. I see it as primary quite often here. FirstNet users have priority across all the LTE bands which could be why 14 is more available now.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Unless they do spectrum swap with Verizon there are a lot of areas where at&t doesn't have band 5. And even with swapping with Verizon there are many places they still wouldn't have band 5 because someone like US Cellular owns the other block. For example Phoenix AZ, Charlotte, NC, Montgomery, AL, Cleveland OH are a few places where Verizon owns both blocks of band 5. Other places like Knoxville TN, half of NC most of Iowa Verizon owsn one block US Cellular owns the other. Of course this problem also applies to Verizon when they eventually go to use band 5 for 5G. Hence why Verizon and at&t doing deals where they do swaps helps both sides.
    Our area is one where AT&T doesn't own any Band 5, we're a former Edge Wireless market, all of the former Edge Wireless markets (NorCal, SW OR, SE ID and Jackson, WY) are the same. Up here in Mendocino and Lake Counties, Band 5 is controlled by Verizon and U.S. Cellular.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10mm View Post
    They probably could, but the device wasn't certified through the FCC to include 14 in the combos. I'm not sure if it would require running it through again for certification or if the FCC would allow a simple Permissive Change to enable it. At this point, it doesn't appear the device will get support for it but you never know.

    It seems they have eased up on when commercial users utilize 14 in the combo pool. I see it as primary quite often here. FirstNet users have priority across all the LTE bands which could be why 14 is more available now.
    Interesting. It's not really a priority, as the only time I really care about B14 is when it's the last resort to get some level of connectivity. I figure B14 will be mixed in over time, since FirstNet doesn't need anywhere close to an entire band worth of bandwidth, and like you said has priority over the whole thing anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by ilvla2 View Post
    Our area is one where AT&T doesn't own any Band 5, we're a former Edge Wireless market, all of the former Edge Wireless markets (NorCal, SW OR, SE ID and Jackson, WY) are the same. Up here in Mendocino and Lake Counties, Band 5 is controlled by Verizon and U.S. Cellular.
    Also parts of NH and ME, but I don't think it really matters. Those areas just won't get 5G for a while, and will start with n2. LTE expanded coverage on B12 in most of those areas, and is adequate for providing Fake 5G for now.

  15. #45
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    Well guys, the FCC certs are out on the AT&T/T-Mobile Note 10+ 5G. I'm still digging, but it appears that AT&T's 5G Note is only going to support n5. Not sure if they can/will add more NR bands on this model :/

    Looks like 5G will be data only on sub-6 as well for the time being. No certs for mmWave either.

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