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Thread: Why doesn't Verizon cover the Bowling Green, KY Area?

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    Why doesn't Verizon cover the Bowling Green, KY Area?

    I havent been there in like 4 years, but looking at coverage maps theres a HUGE area that verizon does not cover, which is indeed a bit odd. Is there a reason for that? I do know Bluegrass Cellular is big there, but was just wondering if theres a reason why verizon skipped that huge area.
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    Maybe it is because bluegrass cellular is a part of Lte in rural America program and Verizon does not see a need to build towers in that area beacuse they have a roaming partner. It may also not be profitable to build out towers there.


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    Back when Verizon Wireless formed, they ended up with no cellular licenses for the area (present day, Bluegrass has the one set of cellular licenses there and probably AT&T on the other); until VZW bought out Alltel at then end of the 2000s, they had quite a few areas where they "could" have built out some PCS licenses but didn't, roaming cost less than trying to build out decent PCS coverage. Bluegrass provided good analog and CDMA roaming back then, got 3G up reaonably quickly so they got good 3G roaming off them. So VZW had no real reason to build out then (and maybe didn't have any cellular or PCS licenses to do it with anyway.)

    Under the LTEira agreement, bluegrass has a lease of band 13, so VZW may not have good spectrum to run an LTE network there; LTEiRA also specifies that VZW won't overbuild the LTEiRA partner's coverage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hyelton View Post
    I havent been there in like 4 years, but looking at coverage maps theres a HUGE area that verizon does not cover, which is indeed a bit odd. Is there a reason for that? I do know Bluegrass Cellular is big there, but was just wondering if theres a reason why verizon skipped that huge area.
    Because you have to have spectrum. So when it comes to 850 MHZ Att has one block Bluegrass has the other. There are only 2 blocks in 850 MHZ band. Only 5X5 of band 4.They do have 10X10 of band 66. They have no band 2 or even band 13. Verizon's lack of spectrum is mainly because Bluegrass Cellular has it. Verizon needs to buy Bluegrass. This is what people that think you need as many carriers as possible "competition" don't get. You need spectrum and there is only so much of it. If an area has 5 or 6 carriers they would all suck. Even 4 is pushing it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Because you have to have spectrum. So when it comes to 850 MHZ Att has one block Bluegrass has the other. There are only 2 blocks in 850 MHZ band. Only 5X5 of band 4.They do have 10X10 of band 66. They have no band 2 or even band 13. Verizon's lack of spectrum is mainly because Bluegrass Cellular has it. Verizon needs to buy Bluegrass. This is what people that think you need as many carriers as possible "competition" don't get. You need spectrum and there is only so much of it. If an area has 5 or 6 carriers they would all suck. Even 4 is pushing it.
    How does VZW have no B13 there when they own a blanket nationwide 10x10 B13 license?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Under the LTEira agreement, bluegrass has a lease of band 13, so VZW may not have good spectrum to run an LTE network there; LTEiRA also specifies that VZW won't overbuild the LTEiRA partner's coverage.
    I'm betting the former, lack of additional spectrum, is why it is still LTEiRA roaming in much of the state. Verizon has built over coverage in parts of Pioneer, Bravado and Chat Mobility coverage (knowing from first-hand testing in those areas). So it's possible an overbuild restriction clause isn't in every LTEiRA partner contract, or the terms were renegotiated after the excessive rural data fiasco a couple years ago.

    Now they don't sell service in many of those areas. That is probably a major contractual part of LTEiRA. I however doubt they can restrict Verizon using licenses that aren't subleased to the LTEiRA partner. Band 13 is Verizon's 'required' VoLTE band, so without that they can't really sell voice service in those areas reliably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baaadandy View Post
    How does VZW have no B13 there when they own a blanket nationwide 10x10 B13 license?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    This is what people that think you need as many carriers as possible "competition" don't get.
    FCC could push for a shared spectrum all over US, like CBRS. Then it won't matter how many providers there are.

    Sure, that would mean they would have to forgo the big revenues resulted from "auctioning" public airwaves to a bunch of rich companies...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoNic67 View Post
    FCC could push for a shared spectrum all over US, like CBRS. Then it won't matter how many providers there are.
    A) what about the carriers that already paid billions for that spectrum.

    B) Shared spectrum would be just about useless. The auctioned CBRS is going to be more useful than the shared CBRS

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Incorrect, they do. Verizon is the licensee, Bluegrass Cellular (the lessee) is leasing 700 MHz Block C spectrum from Verizon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dffdce View Post
    Incorrect, they do. Verizon is the licensee, Bluegrass Cellular (the lessee) is leasing 700 MHz Block C spectrum from Verizon.
    Did you go to the link? You have it backwards. otherwise Verizon wouldn't have sh-t service there

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Did you go to the link? You have it backwards. otherwise Verizon wouldn't have sh-t service there
    No, you have it wrong.

    Verizon is the owner. Bluegrass is the lessee of the spectrum.

    Google “LTE In Rural America” to get details on the whole thing. Basically, certain rural carriers were granted rights to use Verizon’s spectrum in certain areas if they would build out the coverage using their existing network resources and allow Verizon customers seamless roaming.

    Verizon doesn’t have **** service there, they don’t have any service, because they are leasing Band 13 to Bluegrass, and probably have agreements not to overbuild for a certain period of time.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Because you have to have spectrum. So when it comes to 850 MHZ Att has one block Bluegrass has the other. There are only 2 blocks in 850 MHZ band. Only 5X5 of band 4.They do have 10X10 of band 66. They have no band 2 or even band 13. Verizon's lack of spectrum is mainly because Bluegrass Cellular has it. Verizon needs to buy Bluegrass. This is what people that think you need as many carriers as possible "competition" don't get. You need spectrum and there is only so much of it. If an area has 5 or 6 carriers they would all suck. Even 4 is pushing it.
    When I was on Verizon back in 2017, I would go to the LTEiRA partner area (App Wireless in Eastern KY), my iphone then iphone 7+ would say Verizon when I was in that area. Just signed back up with VZW, now when I am in that area, it's back to Extended Network. We have a lot of roaming coverage here in Kentucky with Verzion, but they could buy BG Wireless, and App Wireless, but don't see that happening.

    I signed up with VZW again just because of the coverage in that area, hope this deal doesn't end anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    I'm betting the former, lack of additional spectrum, is why it is still LTEiRA roaming in much of the state. Verizon has built over coverage in parts of Pioneer, Bravado and Chat Mobility coverage (knowing from first-hand testing in those areas). So it's possible an overbuild restriction clause isn't in every LTEiRA partner contract, or the terms were renegotiated after the excessive rural data fiasco a couple years ago.
    Are you sure that it's a true overbuild in those areas, and not a bleed-over on the edges of the coverage area? Verizon would have to build out on B2 or B4/66 or something since they don't have B5 in LTEiRA areas, and their B13 is leased out. I guess they could hit a few busy spots with native B2/4/66 to offload, and rely on the LTEiRA partner for coverage.

    Quote Originally Posted by clonehappy View Post
    Google “LTE In Rural America” to get details on the whole thing. Basically, certain rural carriers were granted rights to use Verizon’s spectrum in certain areas if they would build out the coverage using their existing network resources and allow Verizon customers seamless roaming.

    Verizon doesn’t have **** service there, they don’t have any service, because they are leasing Band 13 to Bluegrass, and probably have agreements not to overbuild for a certain period of time.
    Postpaid and Verizon-branded prepaid customers have Extended coverage there through Bluegrass, which is the intent of LTEiRA, basically an LTE network built to Verizon specs as spec'ed out by Verizon Engineers, but without Verizon having to put the money up or deal with the day to day operation.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtbky View Post
    When I was on Verizon back in 2017, I would go to the LTEiRA partner area (App Wireless in Eastern KY), my iphone then iphone 7+ would say Verizon when I was in that area. Just signed back up with VZW, now when I am in that area, it's back to Extended Network. We have a lot of roaming coverage here in Kentucky with Verzion, but they could buy BG Wireless, and App Wireless, but don't see that happening.

    I signed up with VZW again just because of the coverage in that area, hope this deal doesn't end anytime soon.
    The LTEiRA deal isn't going anywhere. Those carriers have spent millions building out on Verizon's spectrum, which they have under long-term lease. What is interesting is that when LTEiRA started, basically anything, prepaid or postpaid could roam on LTEiRA partners, including low-cost MVNOs. That is no longer the case, and it appears that only Verizon branded prepaid is allowed to get LTEiRA coverage, and all other MVNOs, including Visible, are only allowed on native Verizon, which leaves some MASSIVE holes in the map.

    The weird part with LTEiRA in the Northeast is that they had Wireless Partners build out a network in Downeast Maine and very Northern New Hampshire, even though Wireless Partners doesn't sell mobile service on their own. They are selling some fixed wireless internet using that spectrum, however, so that may be how they are profitable, or getting subsidies to do so.

    Although Verizon has many areas with excellent coverage, I cannot understand why they have left that big gap in south Texas, and why they won't roam on USCC VoLTE to plug a few holes in the Midwest and West Virginia.

    EDIT: It appears that Verizon may be doing USCC VoLTE roaming now as well? AT&T just recently turned it on as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SoxFan76 View Post
    Are you sure that it's a true overbuild in those areas, and not a bleed-over on the edges of the coverage area? Verizon would have to build out on B2 or B4/66 or something since they don't have B5 in LTEiRA areas, and their B13 is leased out. I guess they could hit a few busy spots with native B2/4/66 to offload, and rely on the LTEiRA partner for coverage.
    Possible I was hitting fringe coverage but that seems like a stretch even with reasonable terrain there. If I was hitting fringe coverage, then this would be a really good data point of the pros of the CDMA sunset.

    My recent experience is the closest known Verizon towers would have been up to 60 miles from my travel line. I lost native coverage on OK-34 north of Vici OK, to Woodward and then US-412, and regained native service driving on OK-50 south of Freedom OK.
    That seems barely able to cover with B13’s range, and not possible with B4/66, B2, B5 or still active CDMA. That is why I think they might have overbuilt using other spectrum. Pioneer did not lease out B4/66 because they already have a couple licenses of their own in NW Oklahoma (the rest being gobbled up by the big 4, Dish and USCC).

    I plan to test again when I am traveling through the area next time. Since I have a OnePlus CDMA-less device, I should be able to get an idea of pure LTE coverage and thus better pinpoint what specific towers I am leaning on for native voice. Though my travel plans probably won’t happen before years end.

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