Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 17

Thread: External Antenna Band 13 MIMO?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5
    Device(s)
    Blackberry 8350i
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint / Nextel (Blackberry)
    Feedback Score
    0

    External Antenna Band 13 MIMO?

    I have a Verizon tower (band 13) 6 miles away, relatively flat land in between. I currently have one external Wideband Directional Antenna 700-2700 MHz and I the best I get is get 3 bars (-99) on my MOFI4500 router. I am wanting to build a better antenna setup so I am trying to understand this MIMO thing. I have read a lot about MIMO, but I am still confused. Not sure if MIMO antennas would be a good choice since this would only be a stationary setup trying to pick up a signal from only one antenna (band 13).
    Any advice or input appreciated.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    5,963
    Feedback Score
    0

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0

    Poynting XPOL-2

    Check out the Poynting XPOL-2 which is imported to the U.S. by Frontier Computer Corp (link below if it doesn't get stripped):

    https://www.frontiercomputercorp.com...nting-antenna/

    Seems that the price has increased, but I own two, where one is for AT&T, and a second for Verizon. It is already MIMO capable, so plug both cables into (MAIN + AUX) to your router. It covers all the LTE frequency bands (not just Band 13) in use by Verizon. And since it is MIMO, you'll also get benefit of carrier aggregation for faster download speeds (doesn't help for uplink).

    It is a directional antenna, so you'll want to spend some time aiming it toward the tower. Works great!

    The Poynting company also has videos on Youtube that are worth watching.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,060
    Feedback Score
    0
    >Not sure if MIMO antennas would be a good choice since this would only be a stationary setup trying to pick up a signal from only one antenna (band 13).

    You've already answered your own question. MIMO is multiple-input-multiple-output. If you've only have one source of input (one cell tower), then MIMO won't do you much good.

    Cell signal is polarized to be vertically-oriented (TV sig is horiz), but with reflections/atmospheric conditions the signal can become horiz oriented or somewhere in between. If you have a vert- ant and the sig is horiz, you get a weaker reception (IIRC about -3db, or half-strength).

    The typical 2x2 MIMO ant you see is cross-polarized, ie the same two antenna set at orthogonal (90-degree) to each other, so you've got both vert and horiz sigs covered. You can simply buy another of the same ant you have and set it horiz, then pass the sig to the router's 2nd input port. That's it.

    Odds are it probably won't help, but it can't hurt, so if you want to experiment.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Posts
    5
    Device(s)
    Blackberry 8350i
    Carrier(s)
    Sprint / Nextel (Blackberry)
    Feedback Score
    0
    Thanks for the replies.

    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >
    The typical 2x2 MIMO ant you see is cross-polarized, ie the same two antenna set at orthogonal (90-degree) to each other, so you've got both vert and horiz sigs covered. You can simply buy another of the same ant you have and set it horiz, then pass the sig to the router's 2nd input port. That's it.
    I think I will try that first since it is the least expensive, then go from there. Any links showing the best distance between the two antennas or is that just based on to many factors?
    Even with one antenna and speedtest that show my Satellite is faster, Videos load and stream better with LTE. Still have both (Sat / Verizon) until I get 100% comfortable and see that Verizon will stay as reliable. The price difference is, $20 vs $100+ for Sat.

    Thanks

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,060
    Feedback Score
    0
    >Any links showing the best distance between the two antennas

    No spatial separation needed because one is V- and the other is H-polarized, thus no mutual interference.

    >I think I will try that first since it is the least expensive

    Before buying anything, turn your present V- ant 90-degree to horiz, and test to see if your speed is any better, ie whether an H-pol ant will help you. If you have the inclination, you can try it in 30-degree increments.

    Instead of MIMO, you probably have to use a higher-gain ant. If you have a typical wideband yagi, it's probably 10db, and covers 700-2100+, ie most common cell spectrums. You can find higher-gain ones, but at the cost of spectrum coverage. Know which band, thus which spectrum you're getting, and you can find higher-gain antenna and just boost those.

    Yeah, it can get complicated. Normal people just throw money at it and buy more expensive gear and hope it works. Usually it doesn't.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0
    I have spent hundreds over the years to get a better cell signal. This is a hobby as I have excellent home internet but even after all of this I can never get anything consistent. Yeah I could get signal from say -110 to -90 but the data speeds would not be consistent from day to day.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,060
    Feedback Score
    0
    Much of it is knowing what to buy, because there's a lot of stuff out there wanting to take your money, most of which have nebulous claims.

    https://www.frontiercomputercorp.com...ynting-antenna

    This is a prime example of what not to buy--big claims (really wide band at 11dBi) with nothing to back it up, and a big price to match. It's got nothing except a brand name to go on, which you don't know about. That's what most folks buy, the brand, because they're overwhelmed by the tech aspect of it.

    Go to eBay and browse through the surplus antennas used by cell providers, or CPE (customer premise equipment). You'll notice three things: radiation pattern diagrams, detailed breakdown of gain of each spectrum range covered, and mechanical specs. Most will have a tech sheet. That, and you won't have to pay retail prices like the above.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0
    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    ...snip...

    https://www.frontiercomputercorp.com...ynting-antenna

    This is a prime example of what not to buy--big claims (really wide band at 11dBi) with nothing to back it up, and a big price to match. It's got nothing except a brand name to go on, which you don't know about. That's what most folks buy, the brand, because they're overwhelmed by the tech aspect of it.

    ...snip
    Here is a link to the technical specifications, which includes the radiation patterns:

    https://poynting.tech/wp-content/upl...-V3-Rev1-1.pdf

    And here is the main product page:

    https://poynting.tech/product/xpol-2-5g-3/

    What do you find to be deficient?

    I have the V2 version of the product above, and it has worked great with both VZ and AT&T for 4G, for being in such a small form factor. I have a parabolic grid that is Band 4 specific with better gain, but it is 2 feet wide and 3 feet tall.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,060
    Feedback Score
    0
    >What do you find to be deficient?

    The specs are BS. No wideband antenna will have the same gain across the various spectrum ranges. The "11dBi" IMO is just a marketing number, as it's slightly better than the standard 10dBi of the most common wideband ant (from Wilson, or whatever its new brand now).

    The "ultra-wide" ranges are mostly superfluous, as no US carrier uses 3.4-3.8GHz. For inclusiveness, an ant at this point should cover the 600MHz range, which will be T-Mo's heavy-lift band starting this year going forward. T-Mo paid $8bil for 600MHz (B71) last year, and their licenses cover most of the US. It will be an option for those currently stuck with VZW and/or A&T.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cellul...cies_in_the_US

    Secondly, your bundled cable is likely to be the cheap RG-11 variety. That should be fine for short runs, but for longer runs you'd want low-loss LMR-400 or equiv. It's more expensive, and harder to install (it's much stiffer). Also, carrier-grade equipment regularly use N-connector for more robust connection, while consumer-grade normally use SMA or RP-SMA connectors, which is more convenient and easier to handle.

    Lastly, the price. I try not to pay retail when I can, especially when it's close to $200. With surplus ants I pick up from eBay, there's an additional assurance that it's used by the pros, and not just imported stuff geared to consumers.

    This is not to say that it's garbage. Some of this stuff is fine, as I'm sure yours are. It's just hard to tell the wheat from the chaff, and there are lots of chaff out there.


    >I have a parabolic grid that is Band 4 specific with better gain, but it is 2 feet wide and 3 feet tall.

    Yes, that would be what I'd suggest for the OP, a parabolic dish for higher gain.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0
    Yes, the 11dBi is marketing and clearly noted as "max" or "peak". They specify what to expect for the different frequency bands, including a graph, in their tech spec.

    PeakGain @ different bands:
    9dBi @ 690-960MHz
    10dBi @ 1710-2700MHz
    11dBi @3400-3800MHz


    I don't do eBay, and don't remember what I paid for my parabolic grid, but these folks want $250 for theirs:

    https://excel-wireless.com/product/6...dbi-to-26-dbi/

    Even if the OP goes with Wilson, they're probably going to spend anywhere from $150 to $200 if they go with at least two antennas.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,060
    Feedback Score
    0
    For comparison purposes, here is the spec sheet for the common Wilson wideband yagi 314411:

    https://assets.wilsonelectronics.com...Spec-Sheet.pdf

    Poynting's 11dBi claim is just polite fiction, as it pertains to the 3.x GHz range which isn't yet allocated in the US, let alone built out. As you point out, the rest is 9 or 10dBi, which also are "marketing" as peak gain isn't as relevant as average gain. Then again, we can also say the same with the Wilson's 10dBi number. I find the avg gain on the Wilson, 5.2 for the low-band (which is what we're talking about for long-haul reception), more relevant.

    The difference is that the Wilson is pretty much an industry standard, and is sold on B&H for $50. Used on eBay it's around ~$30. It's a V-pol ant and not X-pol, but for long-distance use with a single input source, X-pol won't be any better. X-pol is good for indoors or in dense urban env with lots of things around that can reflect signals.

    To sum, there isn't much difference between the two antennas, but there's a big difference in retail prices, $50 vs $183, more if you go the eBay route. This is if you believe the specs are real. I find the Wilson's more credible, because they're widely used and have been around a long time. I find Poynting's marketing glossies with its claim of "advanced meta-material" as just BS.

    https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ..._wb.html/specs

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0
    OK, so $100 if the OP goes with two of those Wilsons...

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Posts
    1,060
    Feedback Score
    0
    As mentioned, I'm not high on OP's MIMO (2x2 X-pol) idea.

    The notion of MIMO itself is at cross-purpose with the notion of a directional antenna, which is focused in a highly directional arc. Only the signal in that arc will be received, so reflected sigs are minimal when pointing at a single (V-pol) source.

    I watched the Poynting video at says MIMO (directional) ants are de rigeur, which per above is untrue. It's another data point in my mind that Poynting claims are BS. Its goal is to upsell to higher-priced equipment even when such equipment don't add functionality.

    MIMO would be best for omnis.

    BTW, there are cheaper & more compact high-gain options than a dish. Higher-gain surplus panel/sector antennas for specific low-bands (B12/13 700, B5 850) sometimes show up on eBay. B4 is 1700/2100, B2 1900, and B30 2300. OP can find which band he's connected to, then get a frequency-specific high-gain ant for the job. It doesn't have to be a dish.

    A wideband antenna benefits mainly the vendor, as it only need to stock one part. Less inventory to worry about, and it gets economy of scale. But it's a jack-of-all-trade that doesn't do any one job well.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Posts
    15
    Feedback Score
    0
    FWIW.... I have two lines with VZ, where one is connected to the Poynting antenna, and the other is connected to the Band 4 parabolic, where they point to different towers. I get up to 3 times faster downlink speeds with the Poynting MIMO with carrier aggregation (using Band 13 + Band 4 / 66) compared to the single parabolic fixed on Band 4.

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. 4x4 MIMO for band 13 and 5
    By jack4 in forum Verizon Wireless
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09-09-2018, 05:52 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 11-23-2015, 09:17 PM
  3. FS: UNLOCKED QUAD BAND HSDPA 3G PC Card (Aircard) with External Antenna
    By a in yul in forum GSM phone Buy/Sell/Trade
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-13-2008, 08:18 PM
  4. External Dual Band Antenna
    By jedge78 in forum T-Mobile
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-17-2003, 10:45 AM
  5. sanyo 4500 external antenna?
    By Unregistered2 in forum Sanyo
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 08-02-2001, 09:57 AM

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks