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Thread: Verizon Sending gUDP Letters To Data-only Device Users, Contrary to 2012 Statement

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    Verizon Sending gUDP Letters To Data-only Device Users, Contrary to 2012 Statement

    In 2012, Verizon told Phone.news (then PhoneNews.com) that gUDP SIMs could be used in hotspots and tablets, citing the Upper Block C CFR's "device of your choice" mandate.

    I should know, because I conducted the interview.

    However with the dismissial of Nguyen v. Verizon, they have changed their tact: https://www.reddit.com/r/verizon/com...day_gudp_plan/

    Because of this, I urge those with gUDP to move their SIMs to a non-Verizon phone like Essential Phone, or US variants of Sony Xperia 1 / 5 / 10 (Plus) / XA2 / XZ2 Compact (there are many others).

    If you got the letter, you can take this step and then file a Notice of Dispute. The next step would be a formal FCC complaint on the very same reasons Verizon cited back then; the Upper Block C CFR.
    Last edited by veriztd; 01-29-2020 at 07:22 PM.
    ChristopherPrice.net
    Phone.news (Temp Mod Note: Non-profit)

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    Either iPads are safe, or they're somehow going by data usage (ignoring data-only gUDP devices if they don't use much data, or simply going after the heavier users first and the lighter users later).

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    Why do we need a new thread on this? There is an existing thread.

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    Oh I'm so sick of these "I get to make the network are terrible as I want because of Block C rules" that attitude reeks of narcissism. Block C rules were the biggest reason I wanted Verizon to participate in the 600 MHz auction so they could have scooped up at least 10X10 nationwide and eventually sell band 13 as to not have to deal with stupid rules then what would the excuses be? Luckily it seems common sense has prevailed and Verizon is finally doing what they should have done YEARS ago. Oh by the way Verizon has had unlimited plan back since Feb 13 2017 so people can just move to one of them.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mysterym View Post
    Why do we need a new thread on this? There is an existing thread.
    Because the topic of the "existing" thread was six-plus pages of rumor and speculation. I feel a new topic is warranted so there isn't confusion, because this is distinct from claims and rumor. Action has been taken.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Oh I'm so sick of these "I get to make the network are terrible as I want because of Block C rules" that attitude reeks of narcissism.
    Verizon is free to speed rate plans, which is the real endgame. That started with Visible but they suddenly stopped.

    AT&T has begun speed rating some supported solutions. I'd rather they get it over with, something the Upper Block C CFR was supposed to compel.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    In 2011, Verizon told Phone.news (then PhoneNews.com) that gUDP SIMs could be used in hotspots and tablets, citing the Upper Block C CFR's "device of your choice" mandate.

    I should know, because I conducted the interview.

    However with the dismissial of Nguyen v. Verizon, they have changed their tact: https://www.reddit.com/r/verizon/com...day_gudp_plan/

    Because of this, I urge those with gUDP to move their SIMs to a non-Verizon phone like Essential Phone, or US variants of Sony Xperia 1 / 5 / 10 (Plus) / XA2 / XZ2 Compact (there are many others).

    If you got the letter, you can take this step and then file a Notice of Dispute. The next step would be a formal FCC complaint on the very same reasons Verizon cited back then; the Upper Block C CFR.

    Correction: Verizon made the statement in 2012, not 2011 - I caught it seconds after posting. Moderators, please edit if you can.
    Show me the part we you're allowed to keep a plan what was bought by scam artists? If you unknowingly bought a stolen car you do not get to keep that car once the cops find out where it's at.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Either iPads are safe, or they're somehow going by data usage (ignoring data-only gUDP devices if they don't use much data, or simply going after the heavier users first and the lighter users later).
    I suspect tablets are safe, but I don't think it's worth the risk. I think if they impose the letter on tablets, they're just putting more pressure on the FCC to say it's a clear violation of the CFR.

    But again, I urge people with SIMs in tablets to move to a non-VZW phone and just use hotspot. I'm looking out for the users not the policy here, by saying that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Show me the part we you're allowed to keep a plan what was bought by scam artists? If you unknowingly bought a stolen car you do not get to keep that car once the cops find out where it's at.
    If you look at the Reddit post, the user in question claims to have legitimately obtained the plan. Resellers are unrelated, though perhaps overlapping.

    It is possible Verizon is sending this letter to erroneous targets, but still, the basis stated in their letter warrants dispute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    Because the topic of the "existing" thread was six-plus pages of rumor and speculation. I feel a new topic is warranted so there isn't confusion, because this is distinct from claims and rumor. Action has been taken.
    If those in charge here thinks this topic warrants a new thread this will stay if not they'll lock it.

    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    Verizon is free to speed rate plans, which is the real endgame. That started with Visible but they suddenly stopped.

    AT&T has begun speed rating some supported solutions. I'd rather they get it over with, something the Upper Block C CFR was supposed to compel.
    I assume by "speed rate" you mean sell their mobile data plans like they sell Fios.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    If you look at the Reddit post, the user in question claims to have legitimately obtained the plan. Resellers are unrelated, though perhaps overlapping.

    It is possible Verizon is sending this letter to erroneous targets, but still, the basis stated in their letter warrants dispute.
    If you read the other thread here another person who got the letter was not only putting phone SIMs in hotspots, he was leasing 2 of them out to truckers. So even if your opinion that it should be ok to put phone SIMs in hotpsots you have to agree it's not ok to re-sell service and Verizon has the right to cancel your entire account if they wanted to for doing that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    If you read the other thread here another person who got the letter was not only putting phone SIMs in hotspots, he was leasing 2 of them out to truckers. So even if your opinion that it should be ok to put phone SIMs in hotpsots you have to agree it's not ok to re-sell service and Verizon has the right to cancel your entire account if they wanted to for doing that.
    I completely agree that Verizon has the right to terminate service for resale, if they choose to do so.

    But they have to say one or the other - are they terminating people for believing that is happening? Or are they doing it for using the SIM in a hotspot? They can't just say you're doing one or the other - and refuse to say which.

    It's up to them to say what they have a problem with. That's why the OP on Reddit needs to file a Notice of Dispute. If they're not reselling, they have every reason to keep their plan - else it's textbook slamming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    If those in charge here thinks this topic warrants a new thread this will stay if not they'll lock it.

    I assume by "speed rate" you mean sell their mobile data plans like they sell Fios.
    I disagree with the notion of combining threads, but moderators don't have psychic abilities on the creation of new threads. I feel it is appropriate, and I made one. Again, the first thread was for discussion of a rumor. This is for discussion of news following a rumor.

    Obviously, the moderators can decide to merge threads, even if most readers feel it isn't appropriate. That is their decision, and if you don't like it... you can make your own forum. But, I felt it was appropriate and started a new thread. I think making a new thread is approprate for separating older rumor from newer news.

    As to the rest, yes, I think 4G (LTE-A) and 5G are going to be speed rated like cable and fiber. I think that's inevitable even on grandfathered plans. I just think Verizon shouldn't be engaged in device discrimination, especially in light of the Upper Block C CFR.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Oh by the way Verizon has had unlimited plan back since Feb 13 2017 so people can just move to one of them.
    Ehhh not quite.
    If you're using gUDP in a data only device (which seems to be the main topic of discussion here) the current unlimited plans aren't suitable replacements because they limit to 15GB then hard throttle to 600Kbps.
    Except tablets they get unlimited deprioritized on device usage after 15GB.
    Even on verizon's 5G unlimited plans put hard limits on data only devices like jetpacks with a 50GB then 3Mbps hard throttle.

    The most recent exception to this was the prepaid unlimited plan for jetpacks that was permanently deprioritized but it's since been discontinued.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sims View Post
    The most recent exception to this was the prepaid unlimited plan for jetpacks that was permanently deprioritized but it's since been discontinued.
    That's the other awful thing about this. I felt bad for telling gUDP people to buy pUDP and burn money each month to hold onto both.

    I don't anymore. Those who did, and now are losing gUDP, can at least hold onto pUDP without a regulatory fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hatoncat View Post
    As to the rest, yes, I think 4G (LTE-A) and 5G are going to be speed rated like cable and fiber. I think that's inevitable even on grandfathered plans. I just think Verizon shouldn't be engaged in device discrimination, especially in light of the Upper Block C CFR.
    IMHO of 3 things will happen

    1. They force the gUDPs to be subject to deprioritization (AT&T did this and since verizon was able to retroactively add video throttling I see no reason why they couldn't do the same for deprioritization)
    2. They terminate all the gUDPs
    3. They forget about the gUDPs and leave them alone and people voluntarily abandon them as better plans are made available.

    I'm hoping for 3 but expecting 1 or 2.

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