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Thread: Verizon pegged as: loser, in the T-Mobile/Sprint deal

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    Verizon pegged as: loser, in the T-Mobile/Sprint deal

    The Internet wasnt meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so its insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead its a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text. John Legere 1/5/2017

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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    I m not surprised


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    I somehow think Verizon will scrape by just fine.....color me skeptical...

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    Well they (VZ) are acting "unbothered " by this merger.

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    It's great to see the analysts openly talking about how T-Mobile will be a stronger competitor now:

    "But for the next few years, New T-Mobile really will be a more formidable competitor than either T-Mobile or Sprint would have been on their own, wrote Moffett. "

    "Its not great news for Verizon, given that it removes Sprint and Dishs spectrum as an alternative, created a new competitor in Dish, and has empowered T-Mobile with the tools to deliver a superior network experience to consumers, wrote LightShed."

    "Johnathan Chaplin wrote, T-Mobile will be far more disruptive once they have access to Sprints spectrum than they have been until now."

    "Moffett meanwhile wrote that T-Mobile taking over Sprints key 2.5 GHz mid-band holdings, will allow the New T-Mobile to mount the most credible threat either Verizons or AT&Ts network supremacy has every faced.""


    Exactly what I've been saying the whole time. It's also why I suspect Verizon and AT&T were working madly behind the scenes to torpedo this deal. I also suspect they were urging the AG's to fight this too as a last chance effort to stop it. They failed, and now the new T-Mobile is going to come charging hard at them. It will be a great thing to witness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    It's great to see the analysts openly talking about how T-Mobile will be a stronger competitor now:

    "But for the next few years, New T-Mobile really will be a more formidable competitor than either T-Mobile or Sprint would have been on their own, wrote Moffett. "

    "Its not great news for Verizon, given that it removes Sprint and Dishs spectrum as an alternative, created a new competitor in Dish, and has empowered T-Mobile with the tools to deliver a superior network experience to consumers, wrote LightShed."

    "Johnathan Chaplin wrote, T-Mobile will be far more disruptive once they have access to Sprints spectrum than they have been until now."

    "Moffett meanwhile wrote that T-Mobile taking over Sprints key 2.5 GHz mid-band holdings, will allow the New T-Mobile to mount the most credible threat either Verizons or AT&Ts network supremacy has every faced.""


    Exactly what I've been saying the whole time. It's also why I suspect Verizon and AT&T were working madly behind the scenes to torpedo this deal. I also suspect they were urging the AG's to fight this too as a last chance effort to stop it. They failed, and now the new T-Mobile is going to come charging hard at them. It will be a great thing to witness.
    I don't think anyone debated that the merger doesn't strengthen TMobile. Of course it does. The question is does it actually hurt Verizon or At&t though? That remains to be seen. As the article points out Verizon will compete hard in the upcoming auctions, and the 2023 date they give for actual deployment of the spectrum is almost meaningless, as 2023 is around the time when actual consumer demand for a 5g product will be increasing. Who's first really is pointless, does anyone remember, or care, that the old legacy metro PCS was the first LTE network offered? What people debated was does having 3 equals make it better for consumers. This again, remains to be seen. If we have 3 Verizon's, does it really matter which one a person chooses? Is there any actual benefit to the customer to choose one over the other? Or do we just have 3 carriers, offering the same level of service, for the same price point. Verizon will be fine in the future, they ain't going anywhere, At&t will be fine in the future, they ain't going anywhere, TMobile will be fine in the future, they ain't going anywhere, what does each company do though that separates one from the other and makes one a clearly more attractive offering is the question. If TMobile just becomes another Verizon, I'm not sure this merger is looked at as a positive 20 years from now.


    When people interview Legere and ask him about working for At&t he will always say " yes, but that was like 3 At&t's ago" insinuating the company has gotten so big, they aren't the company they used to be. In 10 years, when people ask him about working for TMobile, is he gonna say "yea, but that was like 3 Tmobiles ago".

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    This piece meal approach with Mmwave seems desperate and laughable.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Wide_opeN View Post
    This piece meal approach with Mmwave seems desperate and laughable.


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    What's really laughable is that anyone thinks who was first out of the gate with any of this is important, or that consumers (other than us cellular nerds here) care about this. I'm guessing 80-90% of the AT&T customers whose LTE icons switched to "5Ge" six months ago think AT&T was first with 5G and they already have it.

    All of the T-Mo fans here patting themselves on the back because T-Mo was first with "nationwide 5G" probably don't remember they were once dead last with nationwide 3G. I actually owned two *used* 3G phones before T-Mo lit up their first 3G towers (and, as it turned out neither of my 3G phones worked on T-Mo's 1700MHz 3G!) And even if the T-Mo boosters don't remember, does it really matter now? Of course not. T-Mo has a good, competitive high-speed network today.

    I definitely couldn't care who's first or last to 5G. By the time I buy a 5G phone, they'll be $199 new, and we'll probably be arguing about who'll be first with 6G.



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    I couldn’t give a wolf’s (bleep) who was first with 5G. All I give a (bleep) about is ridiculously high quality audio calls regardless of what carrier the person I’m calling has, and fast internet access. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this whole 5G bull(bleep) is nothing more then a (bleep) measuring contest between CEO’s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    I couldn’t give a wolf’s (bleep) who was first with 5G. All I give a (bleep) about is ridiculously high quality audio calls regardless of what carrier the person I’m calling has, and fast internet access. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, this whole 5G bull(bleep) is nothing more then a (bleep) measuring contest between CEO’s.
    Well then tell Verizon to get off their *** and reach an agreement to allow T-Mobile to use HD sound with Verizon. Face facts that the #3 Network isn’t the issue it is the #1 Network that won’t cooperate with the #3 networks that is the only network that refusing to allow T-Mobile to work with Verizon. AT&T and Verizon have similar HD codecs just like T-Mobile that works with HD sound with AT&T. If anyone is stopping to HD sound is Verizo that is sick of T-Mobile taking their customers for the last few years.

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    I'll agree with VZW losing out in this case. VZW previously had little to worry about from T-Mo coverage-wise; they had 850mhz networks they inherited, 850mhz spectrum, and 700mhz spectrum (band 13) nationwide. T-Mo wouldn't be able to economically justify densifying enough in rural markets to have 1900 (band 2) provide solid coverage, so in many cases they didn't try to, or simply didn't cover a market at all if it's all rural. Now, the last two years or so, they do have 700 and 600mhz coverage, and are aggressively building it out, the "swiss cheese" coverage they had in quite a few rural markets is becoming nicely filled in. This alone should worry VZW. In my market, VZW and USCC as the holders of the 850mhz bands *HAD* a massive coverage advantage over the former IWireless network (and Sprint, and AT&T); it appears with 600mhz rolled out, the coverage advantage is completely gone, plus T-Mo now VoLTE/LTE roams on US Cellular anyway if there are still any coverage holes.

    T-Mo is getting Sprint's 2.5ghz spectrum, a very large chunk (in addition to most of Sprint's band 2 PCS and whatever band 4 AWS they had), so at that point VZW has to sweat over that too -- VZW's done a good job managing the spectrum they do have, but it's a problem sooner or later when a competitor's got like double or more the spectrum you do.

    Finally, Dish. Relatively spectrum-weak, and some real odd blocks (downlink-only band 4 AWS for instance), but they now have a nationwide block of 600 (that they purchased), they're getting nationwide 800 from Sprint, and a nationwide block "PCS H" from Sprint, in addition to the odd blocks of spectrum they already had. I view Dish as a kind of wild card; Charlie (head of Dish Network) is a bit of a maverick. Might be nothing to worry about, might be quite disruptive. Usually having no existing network is a huge disadvantage, but with the rapid technology changes the last year or two having no "legacy" network and hardware to deal with might actually be an advantage. I've wondered if he might have one of the companies that already make Dish network receivers, Sling boxes, etc., manufacture him hardware for these 5G sites; making it "in house" could save major money compared to buying from an existing vendor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Finally, Dish. Relatively spectrum-weak, and some real odd blocks (downlink-only band 4 AWS for instance), but they now have a nationwide block of 600 (that they purchased), they're getting nationwide 800 from Sprint, and a nationwide block "PCS H" from Sprint, in addition to the odd blocks of spectrum they already had.
    The downlink only AWS-4 block with the regular AWS-4 block is actually combined with all the upload only AWS-3 block they bought at auction which makes up Band 70. Dish also owns quite bit of 600 MHz themselves as well as the 700-E block( except in NY/Philly/Boston and LA, SF which I know is a lot of people that is not covered. So either they can sell that to at&t or buy at&t's E block holdings. Does at&t really use the E block. Considering their debt load they may be willing to sell. They also have a hodgepodge of AWS-3 which they could sell/lease

    Sprint has a PCS-G block which they are not giving up. There is no PCS-H block There is a AWS-H block which is the downlink only AWS-4 block already mentioned

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    There is a AWS-H block which is the downlink only AWS-4 block already mentioned
    I don't think H block was ever designated as AWS either. It looks like it was just called H block in this FCC band plan:

    https://www.fcc.gov/sites/default/fi...ckBandPlan.pdf

    Nonetheless, here's a more specific summary of the parts that went in to making Dish's Band 70:

    "Band 70 combines three spectrum blocks encompassing DISH’s current AWS-4 spectrum as downlink (2000-2020 MHz), DISH's H block downlink spectrum (1995-2000 MHz), and unpaired AWS-3 uplink spectrum (1695-1710 MHz). 3GPP formal approval will enable the development of devices and infrastructure that supports Band 70."

    http://about.dish.com/2016-06-01-DIS...AWS-3-Spectrum

    This is the resulting allocation:

    Uplink: 1695 – 1710 Downlink: 1995 – 2020

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    Verizon doesn't care. Less competition and higher prices are better for Verizon, as they don't have as much price pressure, and it would take T-Sprint a decade to catch up in network quality if they ever do. Verizon's bigger competitive threat is AT&T's buildout of FirstNet, which is actually cranking the screws down on Verizon in many rural markets, as well as for first responder business. Verizon's primary suburban business, however, is largely untouched by either, and will be bolstered by their extensive small cell and 5G buildout.

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