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Thread: DT Sets Sights on T-Mobile Being #1 Carrier in US

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    DT Sets Sights on T-Mobile Being #1 Carrier in US

    “The Internet wasn’t meant to be metered in bits and bytes, so it’s insane that wireless companies are still making you buy it this way. The rate plan is dead — it’s a fossil from a time when wireless was metered by every call or text.” John Legere 1/5/2017

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    The part that should worry non investors is, he isnt talking about in customer count. You don't become the number 1 carrier in market value by offering value service. The part that should make investors happy is, he ain't talking about in customer count, you don't become the number 1 carrier in market value by offering value service. The goal doesn't seem to be a value based alternative to verizon or at&t, the goal seems to be to become verizon and at&t. Great for investors, not so much for consumers. We already have a verizon and at&t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    The part that should worry non investors is, he isnt talking about in customer count. You don't become the number 1 carrier in market value by offering value service. The part that should make investors happy is, he ain't talking about in customer count, you don't become the number 1 carrier in market value by offering value service. The goal doesn't seem to be a value based alternative to verizon or at&t, the goal seems to be to become verizon and at&t. Great for investors, not so much for consumers. We already have a verizon and at&t.
    How are they going to overcome VZW and At&t without having more subs? How are they going to gain subs by having higher prices than both?

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    It's not about having higher prices than both, it's about if they are able to force competitive pressure on both to keep prices low. This doesn't seem like it will be very important to them. Let's play an example game, let's say tmobile raised their prices by $5. Do you know how verizon and at&t would respond? Not by lowering prices, but they'd respond by raising their rates as well, let's say verizon and at&t raised their rates by $5, how would tmobile respond? By raising their rates as well. It's not about value, or giving a customer cheap service. If a customer wants cheap service they can use a mvno. It's about making as much profit as possible. You don't do this being a value carrier. If tmobiles goal is to be as big, or bigger than verizon, they have to get there the same way verizon did.


    This fantasy of tmobile now being able to severely undercut the other 2, and all of a sudden millions upon millions of users leaving the other 2 to jump on to tmobile is just that, a fantasy. It's not about volume, it's about maximizing the profit margin of the customers you do get. They'll do things like target large corporate account, they plan on getting into the home internet busines, they still have big plans for their tv service.....wait....they plan to offer cellular, home internet, and tv.......sounds a lot like....at&t....you know, that company they pretend to hate and be nothing like. They hate em so much, they are starting to copy their business model. This doesn't make tmobile evil or bad, this just means they are like any other publicly traded company, their goal is to maximize the profit margin of their users to increase shareholder value. The merger wasnt because tmobile wanted to compete with verizon and at&t, it was because they wanted to become verizon and at&t.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    It's not about having higher prices than both, it's about if they are able to force competitive pressure on both to keep prices low. This doesn't seem like it will be very important to them. Let's play an example game, let's say tmobile raised their prices by $5. Do you know how verizon and at&t would respond? Not by lowering prices, but they'd respond by raising their rates as well, let's say verizon and at&t raised their rates by $5, how would tmobile respond? By raising their rates as well. It's not about value, or giving a customer cheap service. If a customer wants cheap service they can use a mvno. It's about making as much profit as possible. You don't do this being a value carrier. If tmobiles goal is to be as big, or bigger than verizon, they have to get there the same way verizon did.


    This fantasy of tmobile now being able to severely undercut the other 2, and all of a sudden millions upon millions of users leaving the other 2 to jump on to tmobile is just that, a fantasy. It's not about volume, it's about maximizing the profit margin of the customers you do get. They'll do things like target large corporate account, they plan on getting into the home internet busines, they still have big plans for their tv service.....wait....they plan to offer cellular, home internet, and tv.......sounds a lot like....at&t....you know, that company they pretend to hate and be nothing like. They hate em so much, they are starting to copy their business model. This doesn't make tmobile evil or bad, this just means they are like any other publicly traded company, their goal is to maximize the profit margin of their users to increase shareholder value. The merger wasnt because tmobile wanted to compete with verizon and at&t, it was because they wanted to become verizon and at&t.
    Time will tell. But they are not going to take customers from the big 2 by raising prices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MasonDoctorJT View Post
    Time will tell. But they are not going to take customers from the big 2 by raising prices.

    Sent from my Lenovo TB-X505F using HoFo mobile app
    Why not, they have for 7 years while slowly raising prices. The goal isn't to take as many consumer accounts as possible, they already get almost 100% of the consumer wireless growth in the industry as it is. Their goal now is to take corporate accounts away from at&t and Verizon, those they may undercut Verizon and at&t on. This has zero effect on the average consumer, as the average consumer doesn't open up a large corporate account with 100+ lines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    Why not, they have for 7 years while slowly raising prices. The goal isn't to take as many consumer accounts as possible, they already get almost 100% of the consumer wireless growth in the industry as it is. Their goal now is to take corporate accounts away from at&t and Verizon, those they may undercut Verizon and at&t on. This has zero effect on the average consumer, as the average consumer doesn't open up a large corporate account with 100+ lines.
    LOL more Fake FUD.... I fired the Overpriced and Overrated AT&T in 2013 and was paying about $100 for very low limits on voice, text and data for one line. I am paying less now per month with T-Mobile today since I signed up for unlimited everything. I did switching service plans two times with T-Mobile. Each time I changes service plans with T-Mobile I got bigger limits at a lower cost. T-Mobile has dropped prices for me and never raised prices even one time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    LOL more Fake FUD.... When I fired the Overpriced and Overrated AT&T in 2013. I am paying less now per month with T-Mobile today for unlimited everything than than I did after switching service plans two times with T-Mobile. T-Mobile has dropped prices for me and never raised prices even one time.
    Thats awesome. Hey, you remember when the old simple choice unlimited used to include hd streaming? And you didn't have to pay extra for it? do you actually remember, back when on an old simple choice plan, if you picked a plan with 3gb of data or more you used to get unlimited streaming? That made it to where people really didn't need to pay extra for an unlimited plan. Good thing they didn't ever raise rates. when do you think those people still using the old tzones plans are gonna upgrade to the magenta plan? I mean since plans today are better and cheaper they should be jumping through circles to upgrade to one.

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    Closing a valuation gap is someone talking about stock prices * number of outstanding shares. It's very basic math.

    They shot up a few billion dollars just from the news of getting regulatory approval from the DOJ and the NYS AG dropping their lawsuit. No prices changed, no customers were gained or lost. A quarterly earnings report that highlights the cost reductions of the combined network will close the valuation gap by several billion. Posting lower churn rates will close the valuation gap.

    It's not all about number of customers. It's not all about what they charge. It's not all about profits. It's not all about revenue. Good press = money too.

    Take Tesla. They turned a profit for the first time what... last year? Yet their stock has never trended downwards, even facing some days and weeks of losses, it's always been an upward trajectory. That's because investors liked what they were doing. They had a positive outlook and wanted to buy in. Their stock sits around $900... because of good press and positive outlooks.

    Don't go assuming price increases, they are not necessary. By lowering costs in a merger, notably that having more customers means there's more revenue available, they've created the ability to keep prices flat and even lower them whilst still increasing after tax profit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    LOL more Fake FUD.... I fired the Overpriced and Overrated AT&T in 2013 and was paying about $100 for very low limits on voice, text and data for one line. I am paying less now per month with T-Mobile today since I signed up for unlimited everything. I did switching service plans two times with T-Mobile. Each time I changes service plans with T-Mobile I got bigger limits at a lower cost. T-Mobile has dropped prices for me and never raised prices even one time.
    When we talk about price increases, we're talking about current new customer prices.

    Yes, I realize that we grandfathered customers aren't seeing (significant*) price increases, but the fact that you're still on a seven-year old Simple Choice plan really just confirms T-Mo has raised rates, since you haven't switched to a current plan, presumably because they cost more than the old plan you're still clinging to.

    Similarly, when I finally bit the bullet this year and moved my 5-line family plan from a 15-year old, $120 (incl. taxes) "MyFaves" plan to a $140 Simple Choice plan to get the modern T-Mo perqs of free international data and mobile hotspot, I moved from saving $50/month vs. T-Mo's current Magenta offerings, to one "only" $30 cheaper. The important word here, of course, being *cheaper*.

    So, we've established that both my circa 2005 and your (and now my) circa 2013-ish T-Mo plans are both cheaper than T-Mo's current offerings. Co-inkadinkally, both of these plans hail from T-Mo's pre-LTE/network expansion era, almost as if running a smaller, inferior network forced them to deeply discount their service to remain competitive in a, let's call it a "Sprint-style", fashion.

    As I've said many times, IMHO, the tragic fallout in this merger isn't (just) the reduction of four competitors to three, but the loss of disparate-size/quality competitors. If your small town had 15 restaurants, but each and every one was an haute-cuisine steakhouse with $45 entrees, it'd might look like you had a vibrant and competitive restaurant market, unless you were looking for a $4 Happy Meal. T-Mo used to be the Happy Meal carrier, but they just merged into being an haute-cuisine carrier. You're happy because you think you've grandfathered into the lifetime Happy Meal plan and are looking forward to filet mignons being served next year for the same price. And maybe you (and I) have won that lottery, and will get wireless champagne on a beer budget forever, but just maybe someday T-Mo will introduce a feature or a policy that makes it difficult to stay on your Happy Meal plan (maybe an increase to the regulatory programs fee from the current $3.16/line to $10/line? Maybe a future AT&T-style "bonus" that comes with an unavoidable surcharge?) and suddenly you'll look around for other options only to find they're aren't that many left...


    (*Those of us on non-tax and fee included grandfathered plans like Simple Choice *have* had slight rate increases as T-Mo has slightly increased their bulls--t "regulatory programs fee" from $0.85 to $3.16 per line in small increments over the last several years.)

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    You're happy because you think you've grandfathered into the lifetime Happy Meal plan and are looking forward to filet mignons being served next year for the same price. And maybe you (and I) have won that lottery, and will get wireless champagne on a beer budget forever, but just maybe someday T-Mo will introduce a feature or a policy that makes it difficult to stay on your Happy Meal plan (maybe an increase to the regulatory programs fee from the current $3.16/line to $10/line? Maybe a future AT&T-style "bonus" that comes with an unavoidable surcharge?) and suddenly you'll look around for other options only to find they're aren't that many left...
    This sounds pretty much like Verizon and their grandfathered unlimited data plans where first the company started raising prices to shake off customers to other plans, and then started redefining what “unlimited” means by slowing down after xxGB and now they’re starting to threaten to cut off accounts for using non smartphones on those plans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hofonewb9 View Post
    This has zero effect on the average consumer, as the average consumer doesn't open up a large corporate account with 100+ lines.
    As T-Mobile gets more corporate accounts it adds to their revenue and increases its resources giving it more wherewithal and ability to improve their network which does affect the average consumer.

    When you're a distant third, you have to be more selective and limited with how you utilize your resources.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elecconnec View Post
    T-Mo used to be the Happy Meal carrier, but they just merged into being an haute-cuisine carrier.
    T-Mobile and Sprint had no obligation to the market place to provide "Happy Meal" rates. They are a for-profit business and have every right to charge more if they want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jet1000 View Post
    As T-Mobile gets more corporate accounts it adds to their revenue and increases its resources giving it more wherewithal and ability to improve their network which does affect the average consumer.

    When you're a distant third, you have to be more selective and limited with how you utilize your resources.
    At what cost does it affect the average consumer. If someone is going to pick one of 3 carriers who offer almost unilateral coverage, at almost a unilateral price point, does it overly matter which one they pick? If Burger King and taco Bell sold big Macs, and they charged close to the same price for the big Mac, would it overly matter if you got that big Mac at McDonald's, Burger king, or taco Bell?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    This sounds pretty much like Verizon and their grandfathered unlimited data plans where first the company started raising prices to shake off customers to other plans, and then started redefining what “unlimited” means by slowing down after xxGB and now they’re starting to threaten to cut off accounts for using non smartphones on those plans.
    To be fair to T-Mobile, they've been very good about protecting grandfathered plans in the nearly two decades I've been with them. They did a purge a couple of years ago, and moved some people in really old plans to newer ones, but bent over backwards to try not to increase their rates, even creating new discounts just for these migrated customers to reduce the price of their new plans to match what they were paying. (Presumably this purge was motivated more by a desire to clean up the billing system rather than a scheme to raise rates.)

    My fear, however, is that a larger post-merger T-Mo no longer needs to be a kinder, gentler T-Mo. And if T-Mo does eventual prove to be another AT&T or Verizon (in the bad way!) customers will have few, if any, other options.

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