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Thread: Why am I not seeing band 12 or 71 anywhere even with Pixel 3a?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    3GPP is scheduled to complete the Stand-Alone version of 5GNR with DSS and Spectrum Slicing by end of March 2020. It will take time for new phones and networks to upgrade to the new 5G version. Currently every network and cell phone is running Non-Stand-Alone 5G that is 4G LTE Controlling 5G without DSS or NS. I am not buying a 5G phone until the phone can support Stand-Alone 5G with DSS and NS. At that point with DSS all of T-Mobile’s spectrum can with virtualization that can provide both LTE and SA-5G on the same spectrum blocks. By that point T-Mobile will have most of Sprint’s spectrum that will give the new T-Mobile a very robust deep bandwidth 5G service. Don’t make the mistake of getting a Non-Stand-alone 5G phone that may not be able to be upgraded when SA-5G is supported.
    Thanks for this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    B71 still isn't rolled out everywhere. Per the rollout schedule, phases 7-10 are taking place in 2020.

    Coverage improvement with B71 varies by location. West Coast states, particularly CA, are the least improved. Improvement is mainly in the interior states with sparse coverage to begin with. Highly developed areas benefit least.

    B12 is a fallback band, and isn't available everywhere. That's why T-Mo paid 8bil for B71.


    >Now that bands 12 and 71 should both be working, I am considering returning...although I am seeing good coverage overall, I still have yet to see any real evidence that either band 12 or band 71 actually exist.

    Bad reasoning. Just because your phone doesn't connect to a band doesn't mean it isn't there, in addition to above qualifiers. It's also naive to base judgment on quality of service to whether or not a band exists in any given area. If you have "good coverage," what's the problem?

    Crowdsourced maps aside, pros use RF spectrum analyzer for wireless site survey. Portable units can be found for cheap--starting at around $100'ish. If you want to get geeked, spend some money and learn something new.


    >if I do go back to Tmobile and this time purchase a 5G phone, will band 71 then become a priority band or will I STILL struggle to see it at all?

    B71 support started with Qualcomm X55 modem this year. These are only in flagship phones. X60 next year will get VoNR for SA, along with carrier aggregation and improvements everywhere. Cheaper Qualcomm chips are rumored for mid-range this year, but it's still a rumor. If you get 5G now, you will pay mucho for a beta product.

    I agree with pundits that 5G on low-band is mainly for marketing purposes, and to prime the pump for 5G handset buys. It won't do anything for better speed or coverage. At the other end, high-bands (eg mmWave) face severe restriction on coverage. The mid-band (1-6GHz, or 2.5GHz for T-Mo) will be the sweet spot for both speed and coverage. But that still needs spectrum to be auctioned and allocated, then built out, and new handsets to be rolled out. It will take some years.

    For midband, T-Mo has 2.5GHz (B41), AT&T has large holding of B2 (1900MHz) and smaller chunks of B30 (2300MHz), VZW has large holdings of B4 (1700/2100MHz). The problem for the latter two is that those spectrum is currently fully deployed.

    Carriers are looking at the two midband auctions this year, the CBRS aunction in June (3.5GHz for 70MHz of Priority Access License, or Tier 2), and the C-band auction (TBA, 280MHz of 3.7-4.2GHz). These spectrum will be very important to carriers' 5G plans, particularly VZW's, much more than the high-band auctions. T-Mo has the advantage of already owning 2.5GHz.

    This means that whatever phones you buy or have now will be obsolete in 2 years, because they won't have the new mid-bands.

    http://phonearena.com/news/Cheat-she...he-USA_id77933
    About a year ago when band 71 was first being built out in areas around here, Cellmapper app would at least show it at times as a "neighboring cell." Now though, I see no evidence in Cellmapper that band 71 even exists at all. Even back when cellmapper did show it as a neighboring cell, I never once did connect to it.

    I have "good enough" coverage outdoors on Tmobile. Usually when I go indoors into larger stores or a mall or something like that, signal strength drops down sometimes over 20dbm compared to what I get right outside the front door. AT&T drops as well but usually nowhere near 20dbm. So basically, I get great outdoor coverage with Tmobile and poor indoor coverage and AT&T is the opposite. The differences outdoors are sometines striking and this is why I'd like to go back to Tmobile, but I will not do so as long as the coverage drops this badly indoors.

    Bottom line is, based on what you and others are otherwise saying here, I think I will just stay with AT&T as my main carrier for the time being.

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    >I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone.

    Indoor cell reception is a common problem, which means you can find solutions by searching online, instead of speaking to reps who may or may not be knowledgeable.

    Your problem won't be solved by 5G, which is now still more promise than reality. You have two options, wifi-calling or cell booster (network extender). The simpler, and free, option is wifi-calling.

    You can find answers via Google, simply search for [phone model] [carrier] wifi calling

    http://google.com/search?q=moto+g7+verizon+wifi-calling

    Wifi-calling is a more restricted feature than VoLTE/HD Voice. For Verizon, generally you'd need a carrier-branded phone. Exceptions: recent iPhones, recent Samsung S-series (A-series?) phones that support universal firmware, recent Pixel. Do above search, then read reports of success or failure, and arm yourself with knowledge. This is what the Internet is best at, so use it.

    T-Mo tends to be more liberal with its "advanced calling" features, and you'll find more handsets (not many) that support T-Mo wifi-calling. Off the cuff, the Moto G series (factory unlocked) should support it.

    T-Mo also has free network extender. http://google.com/search?q=t-mobile+...twork+extender

    Again, search.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone.

    Indoor cell reception is a common problem, which means you can find solutions by searching online, instead of speaking to reps who may or may not be knowledgeable.

    Your problem won't be solved by 5G, which is now still more promise than reality. You have two options, wifi-calling or cell booster (network extender). The simpler, and free, option is wifi-calling.

    You can find answers via Google, simply search for [phone model] [carrier] wifi calling

    http://google.com/search?q=moto+g7+verizon+wifi-calling

    Wifi-calling is a more restricted feature than VoLTE/HD Voice. For Verizon, generally you'd need a carrier-branded phone. Exceptions: recent iPhones, recent Samsung S-series (A-series?) phones that support universal firmware, recent Pixel. Do above search, then read reports of success or failure, and arm yourself with knowledge. This is what the Internet is best at, so use it.

    T-Mo tends to be more liberal with its "advanced calling" features, and you'll find more handsets (not many) that support T-Mo wifi-calling. Off the cuff, the Moto G series (factory unlocked) should support it.

    T-Mo also has free network extender. http://google.com/search?q=t-mobile+...twork+extender

    Again, search.
    Yes, I think I mentioned that my searches have involved looking online. I have googled these issues and seen so many opposing answers, it's impossible to come to any conclusion.

    WiFi calling, a cell booster, and a network extender are not reliable options inside public places.
    I have no trouble with either Tmobile or AT&T reception in my own home.

    Even Verizon supervisors insist that WiFi calling works on non branded phones. But you're right, it doesn't work on all non branded phones.

    Tmobile only offers their extender if you have a Tmobile branded phone.

    I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the way to get the most reliable answers is to just try it oneself.

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    >I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone. I have called and spoken with Verizon reps almost a dozen times...I went this route when trying to sign up for a network extender through them only to be told in the stores and by the phone reps that yes a network extender works with a prepaid account,

    >WiFi calling, a cell booster, and a network extender are not reliable options inside public places.

    Er, didn't you just say you were looking for wifi-calling and/or network extender info from VZW reps?

    If that's not what you want, then why bother with the questions, then to complain that they weren't being answered adequately? So now you want good reception in all public places? Good luck with that.

    BTW, VZW reps shouldn't even answer questions about phones from other vendors. It's only responsible for its own equipment. BYOD compatibility is always your responsibility.


    >I have googled these issues and seen so many opposing answers, it's impossible to come to any conclusion.

    Seriously?

    http://google.com/search?&q=pixel+3a...n+wifi+calling

    The answer, straight from VZW site, is the first hit at the top of the listing. In large fonts. How much more clear-cut can you get? Are we talking about a comprehension issue?


    >I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the way to get the most reliable answers is to just try it oneself.

    Sure, let's do that. If you want to ignore the net as a source of info, then go and buy a SIM and try it yourself. But then, what the heck are you doing here?

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    Well,
    1 - Verizon is pretty good but I get practically no coverage whatsoever in my house.
    2 - Tmobile seems to be better than AT&T around here unless I am talking about indoor coverage. This is Tmobile's weak spot. That's why I asked about the 600 and 700mhz bands.

    So, I figure that if one owns a 5G phone, it might be more likely to use band 71 and thus perform better indoors.
    Atm I do have the oneplus 7t pro 5G mclaren edition. From my experience the 5G coverage shows up on band 2 here in Honolulu Hawaii. And it is no better than 4Glte. In fact the speeds and coverages are relatively the same. Had I known this? I would have not gotten this phone. For some reason I never did see any standalone 600mhz 5G here.

    Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joeybutts View Post
    5G right now needs an anchor band on LTE. So you'd be connected to 2 or 66, and have n71/71 in use on carrier aggregation. Phone calls are also VoLTE, VoNR I's not available yet. Right now we are seeing non stand alone (NSA) NR. Once stand alone (SA) is avail, that's when you can see n71 as primary.

    Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
    When should we be seeing this stand alone n71?

    Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    LOL. Sorry for the laugh but I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone. I have called and spoken with Verizon reps almost a dozen times and I have been told yes of course to know you must have a Verizon branded phone. I went this route when trying to sign up for a network extender through them only to be told in the stores and by the phone reps that yes a network extender works with a prepaid account, only to try it myself and find out that no it does NOT work with a prepaid account. If you get a supervisor on the phone of course they tell you it will not work, but any of the tier one people or apparently the reps in the stores will almost always tell you it does work. So I just don't trust them when I ask if WiFi calling works with a non branded unlocked phone. I have even asked in the forums with no luck and my research through the forums results in contradictory results. For what it's worth, my US Mobile TMobile account works with WiFi calling but my US Mobile Verizon account does not.
    And btw, Verizon has been basically out of stock on network extenders for months.
    I think things were unlocked when Pie or Android 10 rolled around, however I understand you’ve been given the run around about this subject. From what I’ve gathered, it should work with a Verizon post paid account on an unlocked Pixel, iPhone, and Samsung phone, and possibly others. I’d suggest going to a Verizon corporate store and inquire in person. They’d be able to set you up with a SIM card and you’d have 14 days to test things out. Something might need to be switched on in the backend on the account to enable it so doing it in store is usually the best bet. Here’s a walkthrough on how to enable it on the Pixel 3. https://www.verizonwireless.com/supp...6c00640a240613

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    I very seldom see bands 12 or 71 on my Moto G7 power, even when I'm very near a known site. When it does flash by, it's normally not-fully-identified. This probably has something to do with the phone's being preoccupied with tracking a half-dozen band 2 and 4 signals at the same time.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by e.mote View Post
    >I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone. I have called and spoken with Verizon reps almost a dozen times...I went this route when trying to sign up for a network extender through them only to be told in the stores and by the phone reps that yes a network extender works with a prepaid account,

    >WiFi calling, a cell booster, and a network extender are not reliable options inside public places.

    Er, didn't you just say you were looking for wifi-calling and/or network extender info from VZW reps?

    If that's not what you want, then why bother with the questions, then to complain that they weren't being answered adequately? So now you want good reception in all public places? Good luck with that.

    BTW, VZW reps shouldn't even answer questions about phones from other vendors. It's only responsible for its own equipment. BYOD compatibility is always your responsibility.


    >I have googled these issues and seen so many opposing answers, it's impossible to come to any conclusion.

    Seriously?

    http://google.com/search?&q=pixel+3a...n+wifi+calling

    The answer, straight from VZW site, is the first hit at the top of the listing. In large fonts. How much more clear-cut can you get? Are we talking about a comprehension issue?


    >I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the way to get the most reliable answers is to just try it oneself.

    Sure, let's do that. If you want to ignore the net as a source of info, then go and buy a SIM and try it yourself. But then, what the heck are you doing here?
    WOW why so aggressive? Geez

    >Er, didn't you just say you were looking for wifi-calling and/or network extender info from VZW reps?<
    When I made the comment that WiFi calling, a cell booster, and a network extender are not reliable options inside public places." I meant just that...INSIDE PUBLIC PLACES. I have no issue with using either in my home and for that matter don't even need either if I am with Tmobile or AT&T. This has absolutely nothing to do with WiFi calling and network extender info from VZW reps. For what it's worth, THAT comment came as the result of having been told (twice erroneously in stores and over a dozen times with phone reps) that a network extender works with a Verizon prepaid account. It does NOT.

    >Why bother with the questions? <
    Please reread the title of this thread. I came here asking why I am not seeing band 12 or band 71 on Tmobile which is supposed to be supporting those bands. Others have graciously given me some sound answers and continue to do so. If you had paid attention to the thread you would have known that these other "fringe" questions were not from my asking them at this point. They merely came up in the discussion

    >BTW, VZW reps shouldn't even answer questions about phones from other vendors. It's only responsible for its own equipment. BYOD compatibility is always your responsibility.<
    First off, I would have had absolutely NO problem if I had just gotten responses such as "I am sorry but I cannot answer that question since you have a non Verizon branded phone." HOWEVER my question to the Verizon reps each time was "will WiFi calling work with a non Verizon branded phone?" And "does a Verizon network extender work with a Verizon prepaid account?" If they shouldn't answer questions about non branded phones, don't blame ME for them having done so. If they tell me that a network extender works with a prepaid account, either they are lying to me or they don't know what they are talking about.

    >The answer, straight from VZW site, is the first hit at the top of the listing. In large fonts. How much more clear-cut can you get? Are we talking about a comprehension issue?<
    Actually your link results in instructions on how to turn WiFi calling on in a Pixel 3a. It in no way, shape or form suggests that a non branded phone will work with Verizon WiFi calling. As a matter of fact, if you look elsewhere on Verizon's site, and come across the requirements for WiFi calling you STILL are not presented with info regarding non branded phones. As I have stated elsewhere in this thread, I DO have my phone on a Verizon MVNO (US Mobile) and there is NO WiFi calling option, though the same exact phone DOES have this option using another US Mobile's Tmobile SIM card. So I HAVE called Verizon to ask if my phone would indeed work with WiFi calling if I AM a direct Verizon customer even though it's not a Verizon branded phone, was told yes, but based on past experiences with what they have told me (such as a network extender working with a prepaid account), I remain skeptical. Sorry if this offends you.

    Again, I am not sure where your aggression is coming from but it's really uncalled for to be honest. For some reason, you are twisting and taking out of context what I am saying. I came here asking why I am not seeing bands 12 and 71, others have thrown in loosely related statements and questions for me, I have tried to answer them and now *I* am the bad guy? Fact is, tech and customer support for most if not all of these tele companies really sucks, they give so much erroneous information that it is almost imperative to fact check them here, elsewhere on the internet, or by just trying things myself. Why come here? Because I thought someone might be able to help me understand why I don't see band 12 or 71. I DID get some constructive answers from others and I thank them.
    Last edited by californiajay; 02-25-2020 at 02:03 PM.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by DebiLee View Post
    I think things were unlocked when Pie or Android 10 rolled around, however I understand you’ve been given the run around about this subject. From what I’ve gathered, it should work with a Verizon post paid account on an unlocked Pixel, iPhone, and Samsung phone, and possibly others. I’d suggest going to a Verizon corporate store and inquire in person. They’d be able to set you up with a SIM card and you’d have 14 days to test things out. Something might need to be switched on in the backend on the account to enable it so doing it in store is usually the best bet. Here’s a walkthrough on how to enable it on the Pixel 3. https://www.verizonwireless.com/supp...6c00640a240613
    I have considered this but it's not reslly worth the effort anymore. Keep in mind that this thread was meant to be about bands 12 and 71 on Tmobile, it's not about getting Verizon to work anymore. This only came up because of other comments throughout the thread. Thanks though.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HawaiiD View Post
    Atm I do have the oneplus 7t pro 5G mclaren edition. From my experience the 5G coverage shows up on band 2 here in Honolulu Hawaii. And it is no better than 4Glte. In fact the speeds and coverages are relatively the same. Had I known this? I would have not gotten this phone. For some reason I never did see any standalone 600mhz 5G here.

    Sent from my HD1925 using Tapatalk
    Thanks for this info. Very informative. I was hoping that maybe having a so called 5G phone just might make band 71 a priority and thus give me better building penetration as a result. Maybe that expectation is just premature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    LOL. Sorry for the laugh but I have been trying for over 2 months to get someone who actually knows, to tell me if Verizon allows WiFi calling on a non Verizon branded phone. I have called and spoken with Verizon reps almost a dozen times and I have been told yes of course to know you must have a Verizon branded phone. I went this route when trying to sign up for a network extender through them only to be told in the stores and by the phone reps that yes a network extender works with a prepaid account, only to try it myself and find out that no it does NOT work with a prepaid account. If you get a supervisor on the phone of course they tell you it will not work, but any of the tier one people or apparently the reps in the stores will almost always tell you it does work. So I just don't trust them when I ask if WiFi calling works with a non branded unlocked phone. I have even asked in the forums with no luck and my research through the forums results in contradictory results. For what it's worth, my US Mobile TMobile account works with WiFi calling but my US Mobile Verizon account does not.
    And btw, Verizon has been basically out of stock on network extenders for months.
    Yes there are unbranded smartphones that support WiFi calling on Verizon. For example the Google Pixel 3 (and the 3a) and 4 should support it and VoLTE.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by compuguy View Post
    Yes there are unbranded smartphones that support WiFi calling on Verizon. For example the Google Pixel 3 (and the 3a) and 4 should support it and VoLTE.
    Thanks.
    Any idea though why my US Mobile (using Verizon's network) SIM does not have it as an option but my US Mobile (running Tmobile's network) SIM does?

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    Quote Originally Posted by californiajay View Post
    Thanks.
    Any idea though why my US Mobile (using Verizon's network) SIM does not have it as an option but my US Mobile (running Tmobile's network) SIM does?
    MVNOs may not get all of the same features as carrier-branded plans do.

    Total Wireless, as an example of a VZW MVNO, does not get WiFi Calling even on Verizon-supported devices.

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