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Thread: Temporary Additional Spectrum

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
    So they have aws-3 in nyc now?

    Sent from my Galaxy S10+ using HoFo mobile app
    Should see it pop up soon . Verizon will have 10x10 extra to work with.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by WiredGuy View Post
    Why did at&t get most of their airwaves? Verizon needs it more.

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    AT&T might have gotten a lot of bandwidth, but most of that is AWS-4 and that isn't really usable on other AWS (band 4 or band 66) devices. Years ago, Dish had to convince the 3GPP to designate a band specific to use this: band 70. There are essentially no consumer-end products that have this band. I'm not sure how AT&T will even approach using this. (ADDENDUM: someone on the AT&T forum mentioned it could be partly used to supplement on band 66).

    The 700E spectrum loaned to AT&T will require devices to have band 29 support, but I don't think Dish had a lot of that to loan out (IIRC ~6MHz).

    Verizon appears to have been loaned more immediately usable spectrum than AT&T.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    Last edited by Haas_Dave; 03-20-2020 at 07:30 AM.
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  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    AT&T might have gotten a lot of bandwidth, but most of that is AWS-4 and that isn't really usable on other AWS (band 4 or band 66) devices. Years ago, Dish had to convince the 3GPP to designate a band specific to use this: band 70. There are essentially no consumer-end products that have this band. I'm not sure how AT&T will even approach using this. (ADDENDUM: someone on the AT&T forum mentioned it could be partly used to supplement on band 66).

    The 700E spectrum loaned to AT&T will require devices to have band 29 support, but I don't think Dish had a lot of that to loan out (IIRC ~6MHz).

    Verizon appears to have been loaned more immediately usable spectrum than AT&T.

    Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
    I agree. I was just browsing through the certified upper and lower frequencies for B66 on the S20+ 5G/986U. It doesn't appear to support the AWS-4 frequencies even as a SCC. Perhaps FCC would allow a temporary change to expand the frequency range via firmware update.....if that's possible.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    Many recent devices have band 66 (AWS-3) support, which is what would likey be needed to get the most out of this. Verizon already uses band 66 in areas from previous spectrum acquisitions.
    AWS B66 is no winner if you have reception issues. VZW has been mostly using it for the last couple of years in my hilly forested ares, and it usually sucks. There has been some low-band B5 used recently. Have no idea how they decide what is broadcast, and it changes often.

  5. #20
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    It’s entirely possible that this extra bandwidth and stuff could be shunted to the first responders for their priority access.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by loboheeler View Post
    AWS B66 is no winner if you have reception issues. VZW has been mostly using it for the last couple of years in my hilly forested ares, and it usually sucks. There has been some low-band B5 used recently. Have no idea how they decide what is broadcast, and it changes often.
    Verizon tends to use band 4/66 as its capacity filler and prioritizes that band for connection, data and CA. I do get your point though, in variable terrain it isn't great.

    Band 5 is a bit common in my residence. Here VZW has 10x10 of that in use for LTE, but it tends to be very slow during most of the day even when CA with other bands (usually 66).
    Band 13 is last-resort status (just like band 17 on AT&T and 12/71 on T-Mobile) so I rarely see it on devices that can see multiple LTE bands.

    I believe they broadcast everything they are licensed to as long as related equipment is installed. I have a device that only sees LTE band 13 (my 3rd gen iPad) and one that sees other VZW bands but not 13 or 66 (an unlocked US Cellular LG Logos), and from what I can tell those connect to the same towers for LTE as with my main devices.

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    Last edited by Haas_Dave; 03-21-2020 at 01:37 AM.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakeuten View Post
    They'll be getting an additional 15x15 MHz in Chicago too, which would give them a MUCH needed boost from 70-80 MHz deployed to 100-110 MHz. They are STARVED there.
    oh yeah. I was stuck using my Verizon SIM today (I misplaced my AT&T SIM in the hotel room - i need to stop SIM swapping when on the road) and on the L back to the loop I was having crazy slowdowns on Verizon having to reload pages and such.

    I've not used Verizon as primary in a while, and while they have some "fast" spots in Chicago.. they definitely need more spectrum for the customer numbers they have here!
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  8. #23
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    There has been some low-band B5 used recently. Have no idea how they decide what is broadcast, and it changes often.
    When VZW rolled out LTE, it was all band 13. Using band 4 second was an easy decision, they were not using band 4 for anything. CDMA/EVDO was on band 5 and 2, in areas where they have both they generally cleared all the CDMA/EVDO off band 2 first, with LTE showing up on band 5 last.

  9. #24
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    Temporary Additional Spectrum

    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    oh yeah. I was stuck using my Verizon SIM today (I misplaced my AT&T SIM in the hotel room - i need to stop SIM swapping when on the road) and on the L back to the loop I was having crazy slowdowns on Verizon having to reload pages and such.

    I've not used Verizon as primary in a while, and while they have some "fast" spots in Chicago.. they definitely need more spectrum for the customer numbers they have here!
    Verizon wasn’t aggressive enough in the 2015 AWS-3 auction. Then they passed on 600 claiming the spectrum would easily interfere with their 700 MHz ( which T-Mobile has shown is clearly not the case) It’s going to get worse before it gets better for them IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Checker79 View Post
    Verizon wasn’t aggressive enough in the 2015 AWS-3 auction. .
    They spent the 2nd most money. You also forget Dish's shenanigans which caused the prices to be artificially inflated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    They spent the 2nd most money. You also forget Dish's shenanigans which caused the prices to be artificially inflated.
    They did, but were outbid by AT&T in many key markets. Places like Chicago and Miami are very Spectrum starved. While they went hard on density in those cities the network is starting to show signs of major congestion. Perhaps 600 or a deal with dish would of been a good option now that T-Mobile has the assets to build a network with an average of 300 MHz nationwide ( not including mmW). There’s no doubt in my mind that Verizon will bid aggressively and win the majority of CBRS and C band. I just believe it’s going to get worse before it gets better. C band is still 18-24 months out from being deployed ( the first 100 MHz in the top 46 markets).

  12. #27
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    Makes me wonder how Verizon will manage data usage in the meantime. I seriously doubt they’ll renege on unlimited because it would competitively cripple them, but they almost certainly will not be increasing those deprioritization caps. (For example their most expensive UDP is deprioritized past 75 GB, whereas AT&T and Sprint have already gone to 100 GB)

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Checker79 View Post
    They did, but were outbid by AT&T in many key markets.
    yes at&t is very good at spending money they don't have on things. This is why they are $150 bil in debt and is now desperately trying to sell what they can to lower their debt.

    Places like Chicago and Miami are very Spectrum starved. While they went hard on density in those cities the network is starting to show signs of major congestion.
    And you can blame DISH for Verizon not getting spectrum there.


    Perhaps 600 or a deal with dish would of been a good option now that T-Mobile has the assets to build a network with an average of 300 MHz nationwide ( not including mmW).
    The extra spectrum is for only 60 days. Of that 300 MHz 2/3 uis 2.5 Gh which T-Mobile will be using exclusively for 5G and at first they are only using 60 MHz. Also they don't have that 200 MHz everywhere. In my area they only have 73.5 MHz( which is the only spectrum Sprint owns anywhere the other 120 MHz is actually LEASED ) the rest will be auction later. Which by the way Verizon COULD participate in that auction

    There’s no doubt in my mind that Verizon will bid aggressively and win the majority of CBRS and C band. I just believe it’s going to get worse before it gets better. C band is still 18-24 months out from being deployed ( the first 100 MHz in the top 46 markets).
    Verizon can use the unlicensed C-band right now an the same antenna that can use that can use the licensed CBRS. Just so where clear that doesn't mean satellite companies have licenses in the other 316 PEAs. Nor does it mean in the PEAs a satellite company cant move of it's spectrum sooner

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    Quote Originally Posted by VVivian View Post
    Makes me wonder how Verizon will manage data usage in the meantime. I seriously doubt they’ll renege on unlimited because it would competitively cripple them, but they almost certainly will not be increasing those deprioritization caps. (For example their most expensive UDP is deprioritized past 75 GB, whereas AT&T and Sprint have already gone to 100 GB)
    Sprint has no customers that's why they can do 100. T-Mobile is still at 50 GB. They now have access to unlicensed bands 46 and 48. Just a matter of getting the phones in people's hands

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    I’m still not seeing anything in the diagnostic screens. Anyone else seeing it?

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