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Thread: Nokia 4X capacity increase for Sprint/T-Mobile B41 with Massive MINO

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    Nokia 4X capacity increase for Sprint/T-Mobile B41 with Massive MINO

    Don’t even understand Massive MINO but in Chicago Sprint’s 5G using B41 with Massive MIMO was tested at 249.9 Mbps that was faster than Verizon’s mmWave in Chicago as tested by Rootmetrics. I have read that Massive MINO works best with TDD. Before I wanted T-Mobile to move their new 2.5 GHz to band 7 for FDD that gives extra distance over TDD on B41.

    After reading this Article what do the board’s experts think would be the best for T-Mobile with TDD & Massive MINO or FDD on B7 and the current tower technology T-Mobile has been using?


    https://www.fiercewireless.com/5g/no...ftware-upgrade

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    It’s MIMO.

    And that RootMetrics study seems weird to me. I can understand that Sprint could do 250 Mbps with their 5G, but the idea that Verizon’s mmW isn’t north of 1 Gbps on average is strange. I’ve tested it myself in Chicago. If you’re connected, you’re doing north of 1 Gbps. I’m sure other mmW users can chime in as well, whether from AT&T, T-Mobile, or Verizon.

    This stuff is really great for the operator but not as exciting for peak speeds. It basically allows everyone to get 250 Mbps, as opposed to 1 person getting 2 Gbps. The site won’t be loaded down as easy.


    “You have 128 ears to listen,” he said. “You used to have one ear – 128 ears in a sector where there are probably eight or 16 users at the same time.” Ottendorfer took another swing with, “It’s like you have 128, how you call the things, megaphones,” he said.

    https://www.rcrwireless.com/20170628...mo-tag17-tag99


    It’s already been reported that T-Mobile is deploying Massive MIMO on FDD sites around the country. Chicago metro has a bunch of them.


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    Once Tmobile overlays their band 71 coverage with band 41 coverage they'll have real 5G locked down. I hope that is part of the plan.

    Even with auctions to get more middle spectrum it'll be years to build that out to compete with this. Sprint's band 41 has a large coverage already in place.

    They will likely lose speed tests in metro areas as competition builds out but frankly 200-400mbs is all people could ever want for a phone. I can't believe people will see speeds higher than that as a huge incentive. Outside of the very core of metro areas Tmobile will own it.

    Tmobile really can't do massive mimo on band 71 because the antenna would be too large, too heavy and create too much of a wind shear load for towers. Tmobile is using 2x2 Mimo on band 71. Works well on band 41 though, meets the spec too..

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Once Tmobile overlays their band 71 coverage with band 41 coverage they'll have real 5G locked down. I hope that is part of the plan.

    Even with auctions to get more middle spectrum it'll be years to build that out to compete with this. Sprint's band 41 has a large coverage already in place.

    They will likely lose speed tests in metro areas as competition builds out but frankly 200-400mbs is all people could ever want for a phone. I can't believe people will see speeds higher than that as a huge incentive. Outside of the very core of metro areas Tmobile will own it.

    Tmobile really can't do massive mimo on band 71 because the antenna would be too large, too heavy and create too much of a wind shear load for towers. Tmobile is using 2x2 Mimo on band 71. Works well on band 41 though, meets the spec too..
    T-Mobile also has mmWave for metro areas, so they'll be 1+Gbps outdoors like everyone else

    The difference is INDOORS where 2,500 can reach reasonably well with a dense enough grid. Verizon and AT&T will drop to LTE speeds, and T-Mobile will be able to keep trucking along at 200-400Mbps no problem.

    THAT is the difference.
    Verizon: Grandfathered UDP
    T-Mobile: Magenta Amplified (airline employee plan)
    AT&T: Premium & More w/ Free 100Mbps VDSL2 "for life"
    Sprint: Premium Unlimited (for 100GB hotspot!)

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Once Tmobile overlays their band 71 coverage with band 41 coverage they'll have real 5G locked down. I hope that is part of the plan.

    Even with auctions to get more middle spectrum it'll be years to build that out to compete with this. Sprint's band 41 has a large coverage already in place.

    They will likely lose speed tests in metro areas as competition builds out but frankly 200-400mbs is all people could ever want for a phone. I can't believe people will see speeds higher than that as a huge incentive. Outside of the very core of metro areas Tmobile will own it.

    Tmobile really can't do massive mimo on band 71 because the antenna would be too large, too heavy and create too much of a wind shear load for towers. Tmobile is using 2x2 Mimo on band 71. Works well on band 41 though, meets the spec too..
    Sprint doesn't have band 41 coverage in a lot of areas. I would say most of the country. Verizon has been deploying band 48 equipment for awhile now. That's why they can use unlicensed CBRS right now in a lot of areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Sprint doesn't have band 41 coverage in a lot of areas. I would say most of the country. Verizon has been deploying band 48 equipment for awhile now. That's why they can use unlicensed CBRS right now in a lot of areas.
    Whaa? I travel around the country for work, and even in small-ish towns... Sprint has at least SOME B41 up and running.

    It's rare for me to go somewhere Sprint has service, and not have B41 available.. Essentially if there's any significant population, Sprint usually has B41 up and running.

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    https://www.fiercewireless.com/wirel...z-philadelphia

    Looks like T-Mobile is plotting and planning for their upcoming merger.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Sprint doesn't have band 41 coverage in a lot of areas. I would say most of the country. Verizon has been deploying band 48 equipment for awhile now. That's why they can use unlicensed CBRS right now in a lot of areas.
    T-Mobile has equipment on towers that can quickly deploy Band 41. Anyone including T-Mobile can deploy unlicensed CBRS right now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    T-Mobile also has mmWave for metro areas, so they'll be 1+Gbps outdoors like everyone else

    The difference is INDOORS where 2,500 can reach reasonably well with a dense enough grid. Verizon and AT&T will drop to LTE speeds, and T-Mobile will be able to keep trucking along at 200-400Mbps no problem.

    THAT is the difference.
    I agree People want speed that works inside building. I have enough speed inside my home for mobile phone functions to make calls or watch videos but I want the ability to have WISP broadband inside my home to run a 4K HDTV and the rest of my house including uploading my Security cameras to the cloud 24x7x365. This is what the New T-Mobile can do that will be very expensive and time consuming for mmWave to complete with what The New T-Mobile can deploy quickly that can create a new WISP revenue that will be significantly allow new expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    Whaa? I travel around the country for work, and even in small-ish towns... Sprint has at least SOME B41 up and running.

    It's rare for me to go somewhere Sprint has service, and not have B41 available.. Essentially if there's any significant population, Sprint usually has B41 up and running.
    come to my area and try to use your Sprint service

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    T-Mobile has equipment on towers that can quickly deploy Band 41. Anyone including T-Mobile can deploy unlicensed CBRS right now.
    Where did I say only Verizon could deploy CBRS? offthegrid said "Even with auctions to get more middle spectrum it'll be years to build that out to compete with this. "

    I'm merely pointing out that once the auction is over and the licenses handed out Verizon can deploy licensed CBRS immediately. Not YEARS later

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Sprint doesn't have band 41 coverage in a lot of areas. I would say most of the country. .....
    Band-41 is not useful for wide-area coverage. It wouldn't make sense to try to cover everywhere with band-41, unless you're using a HAP (in which case it's perfect). Band-41 is used to augment other bands in high-density areas. Here's a map showing Sprint's band-41 deployments in Florida. You can see it's pretty much used where the people are.

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    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Where did I say only Verizon could deploy CBRS? offthegrid said "Even with auctions to get more middle spectrum it'll be years to build that out to compete with this. "

    I'm merely pointing out that once the auction is over and the licenses handed out Verizon can deploy licensed CBRS immediately. Not YEARS later
    Experts think CBRS auction #105 to be a band-aid in this article and the C-Band Auction #106 to be the real bidding war for 5G. Either way expect more deep pockets bidders other than Verizon is going after both. Companies like Comcast and Charter are showing interest in CBRS to off load their Verizon MVMO customers. SpaceX and Amazon are talking about satellites WISP don’t count Verizon as the top bidder in either auction. Then again T-Mobile can bid as much as Verizon or at least make Verizon and AT&T overpay to win. Read this article in the link.

    To put the upcoming US CBRS auction of 70MHz in perspective, the ongoing 3.5GHz auction in Taiwan is offering a whopping 270MHz worth of spectrum. And the big C-Band auction of midband spectrum that the FCC is currently hoping to auction at the end of this year could release up to 280MHz of spectrum. That's why some analysts expect the C-Band auction in the US to fetch up to $50 billion in total bids, while the CBRS auction may only fetch $4 billion in bids.

    https://www.lightreading.com/mobile/.../d/d-id/756761

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Band-41 is not useful for wide-area coverage. It wouldn't make sense to try to cover everywhere with band-41, unless you're using a HAP (in which case it's perfect). Band-41 is used to augment other bands in high-density areas. Here's a map showing Sprint's band-41 deployments in Florida. You can see it's pretty much used where the people are.
    Understand since Band 41 would take ten or more towers to cover the same physical number of customers as one 600 MHz tower in a rural area at least on flat land. Correct me if I’m wrong but the tower equipment doesn’t cost much more to add B41 plus other Spectrum to those B71 towers to augment additional bandwidth to prevent over saturation. Won’t that help band 71 reach out in the outer zones to provide more rural coverage? Granted if the B41 doesn’t make it to some of the outer customers it improves the bandwidth for B71 to those more distance customers.

    The new T-Mobile will use Bands 2, 4, 5 ( Myrtle Beach), 7 ( FDD 2.5 GHz ), 12, 25, 41, 46 (LAA), 48 (CBRS), 66 and 71. If they can make a tiny Mobil phone that can cover all those bands then why can’t ever tower broadcast any combination of some of those extra bands for Carrier Argration?

    I read articles all the time that talks about a Layered Spectrum combination of Low, Mid, High and Extremely High ( mmWave) as the future.
    Last edited by shilohcane; 03-27-2020 at 12:25 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    Band-41 is not useful for wide-area coverage. It wouldn't make sense to try to cover everywhere with band-41, unless you're using a HAP (in which case it's perfect). Band-41 is used to augment other bands in high-density areas. Here's a map showing Sprint's band-41 deployments in Florida. You can see it's pretty much used where the people are.

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    So admitting that 5G for rural people will suck since no band 41 or mmwave. Even though T-Mobile has licenses for both and there are these thigns called buildout requirements

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