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Thread: People that aren't wearing facemasks outside the house

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    People that aren't wearing facemasks outside the house

    Every time I go to the supermarket in the suburbs of New York City, nobody is wearing surgical masks or N95 respirators except a few handful here and there. It's true masks don't protect you 100 percent. But an umbrella doesn't keep you dry 100 percent either but we still use them.

    Why are so many not masking up?

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    There are a limited number of masks right now. I believe common wisdom is to save the limited masks for those that absolutely 100% need them (health care workers) and those who are actually symptomatic. If you're asymptomatic, wash your hands and maintain social distance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiterallyUnlim View Post
    There are a limited number of masks right now. I believe common wisdom is to save the limited masks for those that absolutely 100% need them (health care workers) and those who are actually symptomatic. If you're asymptomatic, wash your hands and maintain social distance.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LiterallyUnlim View Post
    There are a limited number of masks right now. I believe common wisdom is to save the limited masks for those that absolutely 100% need them (health care workers) and those who are actually symptomatic. If you're asymptomatic, wash your hands and maintain social distance.
    If you look at big Asian cities like Mumbai, many people are using scarves, rags, and bandanas to cover their nose and mouth.



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    It's Time to Face Facts, America: Masks Work

    ....Masks reduce the spread of infectious disease by catching microbes expelled by the wearer and protecting the wearer from microbes in their environment. When we cough, sneeze, talk, or simply breathe we emit a plume of air and droplets, which are largely composed of saliva, mucus, salts, and—if we are infected—potentially dangerous microbes. The smallest of these droplets, sometimes called aerosols, may hover or drift through the air for hours, potentially exposing anyone who enters that airspace. Larger droplets may travel only a few feet—or up to 26 feet if propelled by a sneeze—before falling to the ground or onto another surface, such as someone’s skin or clothes....

    Although surgical masks are not tightly sealed like N95s, the filters they contain are still a major impediment to microbes. The CDC and other health agencies often say that surgical masks catch only spurts of bodily fluids and very large respiratory droplets, and that they cannot filter tiny infectious particles. But this is simply not true....
    https://www.wired.com/story/its-time...ca-masks-work/


    And if SARS-CoV-2 is transmitting in aerosols, it is possible that virus particles can build up over time in enclosed spaces or be transmitted over greater distances.

    Aerosols are also more likely to be produced by talking and breathing, which might even constitute a bigger risk than sneezing and coughing, says virologist Julian Tang at the University of Leicester, UK. “When someone’s coughing, they turn away, and when they’re sneezing, they turn away,” he says. That’s not the case when we talk and breathe.

    A study of people with influenza found that 39% of people exhaled infectious aerosols5. As long as we are sharing an airspace with someone else, breathing in the air that they exhale, airborne transmission is possible, says Tang....

    ...The assumption should be that airborne transmission is possible unless experimental evidence rules it out, not the other way around, says Tang. That way people can take precautions to protect themselves, he says...

    Meanwhile, Lan and others are calling for the public to wear masks to reduce transmission. Masks are ubiquitous in many countries in Asia. In the United States and some European countries, however, health officials have discouraged people from wearing them, in part because supplies are low and health-care workers need them. The Czech Republic and Slovakia, however, have made it mandatory for people to wear masks outside the home. Tang thinks those countries have taken the right approach.

    “They are following the southeast Asia approach. If everyone can mask, it is double, two-way protection,” he says.
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-00974-w



    Q: What mistakes are other countries making?

    A: The big mistake in the U.S. and Europe, in my opinion, is that people aren’t wearing masks. This virus is transmitted by droplets and close contact. Droplets play a very important role—you’ve got to wear a mask, because when you speak, there are always droplets coming out of your mouth. Many people have asymptomatic or presymptomatic infections. If they are wearing face masks, it can prevent droplets that carry the virus from escaping and infecting others.
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020...scientist-says


    The CDC Now Recommends Americans Wear Face Masks
    https://www.wired.com/story/cdc-says...97b_popular4-1
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkala View Post
    Every time I go to the supermarket in the suburbs of New York City, nobody is wearing surgical masks or N95 respirators except a few handful here and there. It's true masks don't protect you 100 percent. But an umbrella doesn't keep you dry 100 percent either but we still use them.

    Why are so many not masking up?

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    I'd say partly because of bad initial advice/guidance by the CDC and WHO, even though there was information for a while now indicating that a large percentage of asymptomatic people and presymtomatic people were spreading the virus and that masks are effective and not just by preventing one from transmitting it (one article/study for example mentions how COVID-19 was spread on a bus in China.. none of the mask wearers got it - but 9 people not wearing masks got it some from a faraway distance on that bus - the study was later retracted..and the case of Taiwan and other countries.

    Professor Yuen Kwok-yung, the University of Hong Kong’s (HKU) top microbiologist and an early proponent of wearing masks in the city, has described the case of a seven-year-old girl who resisted Covid-19 while her family members fell sick.

    In a study published in the medical journal Lancet, he said the family of six travelled to Wuhan, the epicentre of China’s Covid-19 outbreak, and the girl was the only one in the family who did not contract the virus. The reason: she wore masks throughout their trip.
    Prof David Heymann CBE, a World Health Organization (WHO) adviser, said, “I think that wearing a mask is equally effective or more effective than distancing.”

    In a paper published in Nature on Friday, a five-year study from the University of Hong Kong and the University of Maryland has found that a simple non-fitted mask blocked 100% of coronavirus droplets and aerosol. There’s a vast chasm between what the science is showing and what many countries are doing. Masks may be the most important weapon in our war on the virus. But we’re not even using it.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...op-coronavirus


    That and basic denial.

    Mayor Bill De Blasio did not help things recommending we all go out to bars and clubs and frequent Chinatown and by delaying the closing of schools. It was only with the threat of teacher walkouts etc that he reluctantly moved on that. The government in general has been too slow to act for the most part to put it diplomatically.

    "And again, when you have 15 people, and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero, that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.” - The President
    I do see many more people wearing masks of all types now in the streets. Hard to get any COVID-19 related supplies now, including surgical masks, other masks, face shields, 70% rubbing alcohol, alcohol prep pads, lysol and clorox wipes, hand sanitizer, thermometers even paper towel and TP paper from the main stores physical or online. If you didn't buy some of this stuff a month ago, you are too late. Though this should improve in time and you can certainly still find stuff with work.
    Last edited by tomseys; 04-04-2020 at 12:51 PM.

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    My peeve is people going to the store instead of getting home delivery.

    I've cut up so many boxes I've had to sharpen my knife three times.
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    Of course, even with the CDC now getting on board with voluntary mask wearing for Americans, not everyone wants to or will do it:

    US President Donald Trump has said he will not wear a face mask despite new medical guidance advising Americans to do so. He could not see himself greeting "presidents, prime ministers, dictators, kings, queens" in the Oval Office while wearing one, he said. He stressed that the guidance released on Friday was "voluntary".

    "You do not have to do it," he said. "I don't think I'm going to be doing it."

    The guidelines issued by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the government's public health advisory agency, came as the US reported more than 1,100 deaths in a single day - the highest total for a 24-hour period anywhere in the world.

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    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52161529

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    Quote Originally Posted by zapjb View Post
    My peeve is people going to the store instead of getting home delivery.

    I've cut up so many boxes I've had to sharpen my knife three times.

    Many home delivery services have a minimum, charge high fees, have limited availability of items, and if they are working at all, have extended delivery times. The virus is thought to survive for a day on cardboard, longer on plastic and metal, and there have been reports of workers (UPS, FEDEX etc) working while sick. The epicenter of CV-19 in NYC has a lot of undocumented immigrants in the neighborhood, some of whom work as delivery people. So though it may be safer getting home delivery as long as one is careful interacting with delivery people and disinfecting the boxes and food items, it is oftentimes more expensive and lacking and when so many people have lost their job and contemplating how they will even pay rent this month, heading out to buy milk can look like the better option.

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    Yes. I should have added a disclaimer. Those that can afford to get food delivered but don't imo are being irresponsible.

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    I just came from outside after doing laundry... seems pretty much everyone is wearing masks now. Some have face shields.
    I've noticed imask use increasing over the past few days. I guess the CDC recommendation has now helped bring it full on.

    That and the ever increasing death toll:

    The U.S. topped 1,000 coronavirus deaths in a single day for the first time Wednesday, a daily death toll more than double that of two of America's most deadly illnesses – lung cancer and the flu.
    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...lu/5100905002/


    NY has worst day yet for coronavirus deaths; 1,100 over 2 days

    Gov. Andrew Cuomo said 3,565 people have died in New York related to the coronavirus, an “all-time increase” of more than 600 in a single day.

    That’s more than 1,100 deaths over two days. A week ago, the total number of deaths statewide were 209. Friday there were more than 500 new deaths. Today, the single-day number was 630 deaths.

    As of midday today, the state has 10,841 new confirmed cases, for a total of 113,705 confirmed cases. And 4,126 people are in ICU beds, he said. Cuomo also said two-thirds of people who were hospitalized have been discharged. More than 23,000 people were tested on Friday.
    https://www.syracuse.com/coronavirus...er-2-days.html

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    People that aren't wearing facemasks outside the house

    The governor of CA asked us to self quarantine long before other states. Despite being the most populous state this along with early self distancing techniques may have prevented us from being as bad as New York.

    Other possible reasons may include:

    a) More Californians have cars and drive more than they walk

    b) On average our cities and towns are less dense and spread farther apart

    c) CA companies like Apple, Tesla and Space X agreed early on to assist with the making of PPE and Ventilating equipment prioritizing our state

    d) The federal government has put much of the onus on each individual state to help themselves instead of a national federal response. That means states with the most money like CA. can outbid other states for PPE and other medical gear including New York

    That said: There are still people, in Los Angeles for example throwing birthday parties and alike refusing to listen to authorities. I don’t understand how they can be so selfish:



    And of course when these idiots finally see the light and the virus hits home, they leave the city in droves and camp out in smaller rural towns bringing the virus with them. Again: selfish.

    Anyways I bought 100 more respirator masks from Ali Express and a couple cases of hand sanitizer a few days back. They should be here in a week. I’m going to share these masks with some in my community who may not have them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by munkala View Post
    Every time I go to the supermarket in the suburbs of New York City, nobody is wearing surgical masks or N95 respirators except a few handful here and there. ......
    N95 masks need to be reserved for healthcare workers. N95 masks have to be combined with other PPE (e.g. face shield, plastic head covering, gloves, etc) to be effective.

    The cheap paper masks, either molded or folded have been pretty much unavailable since the first beginnings of the pandemic. Most of them were made in China. Anything less than N95 does not directly protect the wearer from getting a virus. What they do is to prevent the wearer from spreading so many germs and remind him/her not to touch the face.

    Until recently, it has not been WHO/CDC guidance to wear masks when in public but recent data from countries that have adopted face masks (China, S. Korea, Japan) has prompted a review and very recent reversal of this guidance.

    With China, S. Korea and Japan using so many masks and US production lines lagging* behind demand, people are dusting off the old sewing machines and wishing they'd taken Home Economics instead of Calculus. I'm beginning to see more homemade cloth masks around here, mostly worn by elderly boomers who remember how to sew.

    I had a small supply of paper masks, some molded ones in my shop for painting and some soft ones that I took on international trips. I wear one whenever I go out.

    *Remember 1) until recently we got most of our paper face masks from China 2) medical masks not only have to be made, they have to be sterile. So, you can't just convert an assembly line from making Post-It-Notes to N95 face masks overnight.
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    An interesting article about the effectiveness of various masks including surgical masks, N95 masks and masks made from kitchen towels

    In the past few months, with medical supplies dangerously diminished, the CDC, US surgeon general Jerome Adams, and the World Health Organization have urged people not to buy masks, paradoxically claiming that masks are both essential for the safety of health care workers and incapable of protecting the public from Covid-19. (WIRED's editorial staff, like the CDC, suggests that healthy people not wear masks.)

    Recently, some experts have disputed this contradictory advice. They propose that widespread use of masks is one of the many reasons why China, Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan have controlled outbreaks of coronavirus much more effectively than the US and Europe. “Of course masks work,” sociologist Zeynep Tufekci wrote in a New York Times editorial. “Their use has always been advised as part of the standard response to being around infected people.” Public health expert Shan Soe-Lin and epidemiologist Robert Hecht made a similar argument in the Boston Globe: “We need to change our perception that masks are only for sick people and that it’s weird or shameful to wear one … If more people donned masks it would become a social norm as well as a public health good.” Last week, George Gao, director-general of the Chinese Center for Disease Control and Prevention, said that America and Europe are making a "big mistake" by not telling the public to wear masks during the ongoing pandemic.

    Masks reduce the spread of infectious disease by catching microbes expelled by the wearer and protecting the wearer from microbes in their environment. When we cough, sneeze, talk, or simply breathe we emit a plume of air and droplets, which are largely composed of saliva, mucus, salts, and—if we are infected—potentially dangerous microbes. The smallest of these droplets, sometimes called aerosols, may hover or drift through the air for hours, potentially exposing anyone who enters that airspace. Larger droplets may travel only a few feet—or up to 26 feet if propelled by a sneeze—before falling to the ground or onto another surface, such as someone’s skin or clothes.

    Although surgical masks are not tightly sealed like N95s, the filters they contain are still a major impediment to microbes. The CDC and other health agencies often say that surgical masks catch only spurts of bodily fluids and very large respiratory droplets, and that they cannot filter tiny infectious particles. But this is simply not true.
    https://www.wired.com/story/its-time...ca-masks-work/


    In a paper published in Nature on Friday, a five-year study from the University of Hong Kong and the University of Maryland has found that a simple non-fitted mask blocked 100% of coronavirus droplets and aerosol. There’s a vast chasm between what the science is showing and what many countries are doing. Masks may be the most important weapon in our war on the virus.
    https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...op-coronavirus



    Of course, CDC now recommends masks.

    More:
    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019...coverings.html

    How to make a mask (featuring the Surgeon General)
    https://youtu.be/tPx1yqvJgf4

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    People that aren't wearing facemasks outside the house

    California Substantially Flattened the COVID-19 Curve in March


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.noo...march_20200405


    Despite being the most populous state in the union we’ve been able to flatten the curve and avoid the worst case scenario at least for now.

    At first I was irritated when CA told its residents to quarantine at home when nobody else was. But now I see how important it was to start early. Thank you Gavin!

    We still got a long way to go but at least for us here on the west coast there is a light at the end of the tunnel.

    My heart does go out to all the people experiencing the pain of losing loved ones in New York City and New Orleans.

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