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Thread: In 2021 T-Mobile will only support VoLTE & 5G for voice calls

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Buttler View Post
    With 5G going strong it is inevitable that 2G and or 3G will need to be shuttered soon. Those precious airwaves are better used with the newer technologies.
    200kHz in a guardband is not going to do *anything* for 5G (they cannot use the space for 3G/4G/5G), and leaving a few GSM channels does bring them money from spectrum they'd otherwise make *nothing* on. And, it leaves a spot someone can make a call on if they put their SIM into a non VoLTE device - the quality isn't going to be the best, but it's something and T-Mobile is making money for IoT devices that still use 2G GSM.

    Those IOT devices only send/receive a few kb at a time, and most do not even use more than a few MB/month.. and are still even on GPRS.

    It's the same thing Verizon's gonna end up doing - leaving a 1.25MHz slice of CDMA up for those IoT contracts they have, and I assume will just update the SID to something that's not in any current Verizon PRL so the phones no longer connect to it.

    There's a reason why you can go almost anywhere in the world and still connect to GSM/GPRS - with it shoved into the guardband it makes the carrier money on spectrum that's considered "useless" anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    200kHz in a guardband is not going to do *anything* for 5G (they cannot use the space for 3G/4G/5G), and leaving a few GSM channels does bring them money from spectrum they'd otherwise make *nothing* on. And, it leaves a spot someone can make a call on if they put their SIM into a non VoLTE device - the quality isn't going to be the best, but it's something and T-Mobile is making money for IoT devices that still use 2G GSM.

    Those IOT devices only send/receive a few kb at a time, and most do not even use more than a few MB/month.. and are still even on GPRS.

    It's the same thing Verizon's gonna end up doing - leaving a 1.25MHz slice of CDMA up for those IoT contracts they have, and I assume will just update the SID to something that's not in any current Verizon PRL so the phones no longer connect to it.

    There's a reason why you can go almost anywhere in the world and still connect to GSM/GPRS - with it shoved into the guardband it makes the carrier money on spectrum that's considered "useless" anyway.
    The number I saw was about 40 million subscriber lines still using 2G. That included mobile phones. My guess would still be that most of that number are IoT lines.

    The IoT market is like a sewer system. It is infrastructure. There is a lot of it, but you usually don't see it. Many of us are familiar with home alarm systems with cellular for monitoring. There is a whole lot more than that in business, industry and government, like most commercial trucks have it. A relative's pacemaker monitor thingy says LTE on it. You used to have to hook those things up to a landline with an acoustic coupler.

    My understanding is that simple IoT lines only cost a few dollars a month to the subscriber. It is up to T-Mo to decide if it is worth it to continue. Nobody should be selling any new IoT devices that are less then LTE at this point.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobdevnul View Post
    The number I saw was about 40 million subscriber lines still using 2G. That included mobile phones. My guess would still be that most of that number are IoT lines.

    The IoT market is like a sewer system. It is infrastructure. There is a lot of it, but you usually don't see it. Many of us are familiar with home alarm systems with cellular for monitoring. There is a whole lot more than that in business, industry and government, like most commercial trucks have it. A relative's pacemaker monitor thingy says LTE on it. You used to have to hook those things up to a landline with an acoustic coupler.

    My understanding is that simple IoT lines only cost a few dollars a month to the subscriber. It is up to T-Mo to decide if it is worth it to continue. Nobody should be selling any new IoT devices that are less then LTE at this point.
    I agree, but with software defined radios, and using what's "useless" spectrum anyway.. there's no harm in leaving that up and going.. and really for those devices only sending a few MB/mo, it's free cash for T-Mobile.

    HSPA... yeah that's taking a minimum of 3.4-5.2MHz of spectrum so it needs to go for sure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    I agree, but with software defined radios, and using what's "useless" spectrum anyway.. there's no harm in leaving that up and going.. and really for those devices only sending a few MB/mo, it's free cash for T-Mobile.

    HSPA... yeah that's taking a minimum of 3.4-5.2MHz of spectrum so it needs to go for sure.
    Does gsm equipment use up a lot rack space at the site? Aren’t they power hogs?

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Buttler View Post
    Does gsm equipment use up a lot rack space at the site? Aren’t they power hogs?
    for 200khz of GSM, no.. and one single GSM card is not going to be a huge power drain.

    At this point, it could be software defined radio anyway, since they went RRU, that would just be emulated by the same radio pumping out LTE/HSPA (which would mean no real additional power drain, as it's all done by software radios anyway) - which would make sense as that makes them able to shift channels/network config around remotely.

    for 8ch of GSM/EDGE.. i could imagine at best a few kWh/mo of power, and a max of 236.8kbps of data needed to be used for that entire set.

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    2G is like 29 years old. 3G is a 2001 and 4G is 2009 air interface. I can’t even find a phone that I have that still is holding a charger or booting that is more than four years old. My 2015 LG G4 just died again today that eats replaced batteries every 5 months but it was just used as a remote Control to my home thermostat. My 2014 Nexus 5 just won’t boot. Don’t know how anyone still has a 2G Only phone that still works.

    I want everyone on at least a LTE phone. AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile and just about every international network has shut down 2G & 3G around the world. Ericsson’s DSS only supports LTE and 5G. At some point 2G &3G equipment manufacturers won’t make cell phones or towers equipment for 2G, 3G, CDMA or GSM. 5G is the future and 3GPP is even taking about 6G in a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    2G is like 29 years old. 3G is a 2001 and 4G is 2009 air interface. I can’t even find a phone that I have that still is holding a charger or booting that is more than four years old. My 2015 LG G4 just died again today that eats replaced batteries every 5 months but it was just used as a remote Control to my home thermostat. My 2014 Nexus 5 just won’t boot. Don’t know how anyone still has a 2G Only phone that still works.

    I want everyone on at least a LTE phone. AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile and just about every international network has shut down 2G & 3G around the world. Ericsson’s DSS only supports LTE and 5G. At some point 2G &3G equipment manufacturers won’t make cell phones or towers equipment for 2G, 3G, CDMA or GSM. 5G is the future and 3GPP is even taking about 6G in a few years.
    It's not about consumer handset use. It's about T-Mo continuing to make some money from IoT lines on a tiny slice of otherwise unusable spectrum if that makes economic sense for them.

    With software defined radios they don't need to rely on antiquated equipment. Eventually the 2G IoT devices will dwindle away. Nobody should be selling or buying new 2G or 3G IoT devices.

    I still have some 2G and 3G phones and a hotspot that charge and operate fine, but I no longer use them and don't care if they function. I'm not one of those people who whine that my carrier is being unfair by cutting off support for my ten+ year old phone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    2G is like 29 years old. 3G is a 2001 and 4G is 2009 air interface. I can’t even find a phone that I have that still is holding a charger or booting that is more than four years old. My 2015 LG G4 just died again today that eats replaced batteries every 5 months but it was just used as a remote Control to my home thermostat. My 2014 Nexus 5 just won’t boot. Don’t know how anyone still has a 2G Only phone that still works.

    I want everyone on at least a LTE phone. AT&T, Verizon, T-Mobile and just about every international network has shut down 2G & 3G around the world. Ericsson’s DSS only supports LTE and 5G. At some point 2G &3G equipment manufacturers won’t make cell phones or towers equipment for 2G, 3G, CDMA or GSM. 5G is the future and 3GPP is even taking about 6G in a few years.
    What you want, and how the world works are two different things, and if you have phones that recent not booting, then you're simply not taking care of them.

    I've got phones here that I assume are older than you are (based on how/what you post) that still boot fine.

    I mean hell, i've got a 22yr old CDMA phone active on Sprint, and a 1997 Motorola Select 2000e that still work fine to this day. The StarTac is actually what I use for my "on call" work phone as it's more reliable than VoLTE haha

    Also, i'm going to reiterate my (and bob's point above) that even if 2G is shut off, it's going to do nothing for your experience at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    .... and if you have phones that recent not booting, then you're simply not taking care of them....
    I've learned the hard way that some old phones had memory batteries and if you let them go flat dead for an extended period, they just brick themselves.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    I've learned the hard way that some old phones had memory batteries and if you let them go flat dead for an extended period, they just brick themselves.
    Yeah, but he's saying 4yr old phones - ones with Lithium Ion batteries.. as i've not seen a phone use NiMH batteries since Symbian was still popular, and early Symbian at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shilohcane View Post
    T-Mobile & Rogers 2G Networks to Shut Down at End of 2020...

    ...Read more: https://www.alarmgrid.com/blog/t-mob...at-end-of-2020
    Interestingly, it doesn't warn about any impending 3G shutdown for T-Mo. T-Mo set the 2G sunset date as end of 2020 back in 2016. (E.g. https://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=18171)

    AFAIK, T-Mo has never announced a 3G sunset date, and honestly, until VoLTE interoperability gets a lot better than it is today, I can't see any operator who takes in any appreciable roaming revenue shutting down 3G as soon as the end of this calendar year.





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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    for 200khz of GSM, no.. and one single GSM card is not going to be a huge power drain.

    At this point, it could be software defined radio anyway, since they went RRU, that would just be emulated by the same radio pumping out LTE/HSPA (which would mean no real additional power drain, as it's all done by software radios anyway) - which would make sense as that makes them able to shift channels/network config around remotely.

    for 8ch of GSM/EDGE.. i could imagine at best a few kWh/mo of power, and a max of 236.8kbps of data needed to be used for that entire set.
    I'm not against old GSM as a technology itself... BUT from a large scale and 'support' ability, its simpler to deploy support a single or best dual (existing + new) while mothballing the old tech.
    This would be like having support for Windows 10, 7, XP and 98.
    From a business perspective, its actually a cost with effectively no benefit.
    I suspect that much of this is a bigger rebuild and its best to just remove what isn't 'really' getting any use.
    Unless they are doing software or hardware changes - I wouldn't see it being changed.
    Sure wouldn't see and 'new' sites ever getting old tech.
    This might be part of the integration, and upgrade/replacement of gear - getting rid of a lot of older tech and moving forward with 'at best' 5G/4G and maybe 3G.
    Some of this may be to get rid of old 2G / 3G voice on non IP backhaul (i.e. old CO switching).
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by formercanuck View Post
    I'm not against old GSM as a technology itself... BUT from a large scale and 'support' ability, its simpler to deploy support a single or best dual (existing + new) while mothballing the old tech.
    This would be like having support for Windows 10, 7, XP and 98.
    From a business perspective, its actually a cost with effectively no benefit.
    I suspect that much of this is a bigger rebuild and its best to just remove what isn't 'really' getting any use.
    Unless they are doing software or hardware changes - I wouldn't see it being changed.
    Sure wouldn't see and 'new' sites ever getting old tech.
    This might be part of the integration, and upgrade/replacement of gear - getting rid of a lot of older tech and moving forward with 'at best' 5G/4G and maybe 3G.
    Some of this may be to get rid of old 2G / 3G voice on non IP backhaul (i.e. old CO switching).
    Yeah, we will see, i'm not sure if it's really "lucrative" but I can imagine them keeping the service area the "same" for 40k IoT devices is still just lucrative enough to justify it. Regardless, it's not impeding 5G in any way currently, so I doubt they'll mess with it anytime soon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brad15 View Post
    What you want, and how the world works are two different things, and if you have phones that recent not booting, then you're simply not taking care of them.

    I've got phones here that I assume are older than you are (based on how/what you post) that still boot fine.

    I mean hell, i've got a 22yr old CDMA phone active on Sprint, and a 1997 Motorola Select 2000e that still work fine to this day. The StarTac is actually what I use for my "on call" work phone as it's more reliable than VoLTE haha

    Also, i'm going to reiterate my (and bob's point above) that even if 2G is shut off, it's going to do nothing for your experience at all.
    Every phone I have has never spent more than a few minutes outside a case with the exception of my StarTac. My 2014 Nexus 5 Just stop turning on and the non-replaceable battery had about 5 hours change on a good day. One day it just would not light up. My 2015 LG G4 was was refurbished by LG after that Bootloop issue that cost me $90 and it just eats new battery after about 5 months. Never buying another LG or Apple. Maybe it is the salt air here in Florida but battery don’t last long. It would work if I got it a new battery. I also have a old AT&T Moto StarTac but no clue where the changer is. It was a good phone 12 plus years ago but it isn’t useful for a phone that I would carry. It maybe Is the only phone I ever thought was kool that makes me smile when I flip the StarTac open. When I pick it up I may think Beam me up Scotty. But never said that out loud. Phones are just tools to me and when they have a better tool the old tool is obsolete and useless just like 2G & 3G.

    But please tell me why almost every major network in the world is shutting down 2G &3G if it is so profitable?

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    so shiloh how long do you think they'll keep 2g edge around on t-mobile?
    Manners cost nothing, and also have the added benefit of making a man. You know, it is entirely possible to rise above others, without stooping to pushing them under, and putting them down.
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