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Thread: Watch out T-Mobile, Verizon wins big at FCC mid band auction

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    Watch out T-Mobile, Verizon wins big at FCC mid band auction

    Finally a chance for Verizon to catch up T-mobile in the midband spectrum?

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/2/21...inner-fcc-dish

    Verizon is spending nearly $1.9 billion to catch up on 5G spectrum, as the biggest carriers race to roll out higher-speed connections nationwide. This morning, the Federal Communications Commission revealed the winners of an auction for licenses to valuable spectrum that’s especially useful for 5G. Verizon was the biggest spender by far. Dish came in second, spending $912 million. Charter, Comcast, and Cox all spent hundreds of millions on spectrum as well.

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    Watch out for what? T-Mobile needs to spend their money deploying the spectrum they have, not buying more. DISH needs to get off TDC and start building something. So far, they just been collecting, not deploying.
    Donald Newcomb

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    Ironically, the post on this in the Verizon Wireless forum is titled "Verizon CBRS auction failure" . VZW was rather selective where they bought PALS, 157 out of over 3200 counties.

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    Quote Originally Posted by navyson View Post
    Finally a chance for Verizon to catch up T-mobile in the midband spectrum?

    https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/2/21...inner-fcc-dish

    Verizon is spending nearly $1.9 billion to catch up on 5G spectrum, as the biggest carriers race to roll out higher-speed connections nationwide. This morning, the Federal Communications Commission revealed the winners of an auction for licenses to valuable spectrum that’s especially useful for 5G. Verizon was the biggest spender by far. Dish came in second, spending $912 million. Charter, Comcast, and Cox all spent hundreds of millions on spectrum as well.
    Verizon bought CBRS spectrum in only about 5% of US counties. Spending the most does not equate it "winning" Dish spend half that and getting some spectrum in 97% of counties is more of "win" in my book

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    Quote Originally Posted by hwertz View Post
    Ironically, the post on this in the Verizon Wireless forum is titled "Verizon CBRS auction failure" . VZW was rather selective where they bought PALS, 157 out of over 3200 counties.
    Yes I started that thread because it's true and the so called "experts" that write these "So and So won because they spent the most " articles are morons. And the excuse makers on the Verizon board and on Reddit say stupid stuff like "Well Verizon can just use the GAA portion for FREE" Well if that is such and awesome strategy why did Verizon buy any AT ALL?

    GAA strategy is fine if you assume
    A) The owners of the PAL licenses are not going to use/lease their spectrum
    B) No one else decides to use the GAA portion

    Both are very unlikely. At&t didn't buy any( because they are broke from so many dumb financial decisions ), in areas where Charter and Comcast didn't buy any but offer service you can sure they will use it to just to avoid paying Verizon for data on their phone service. The whole "use it and hope no one else does" is a stupid way of running a business.

    Excuse makers also say dumb stuff like "Well Verizon can buy big in the C-band auction". Well yes they can and if you don't live in the top 50 markets Verizon can't deploy that spectrum until December 2023. nd they can't only deploy in the top 50 markets before Dec 2023 if they buy the lower 100 MHz which means that spectrum will cost A LOT more then the rest. Once Verizon blows it's wad on that what's going to left over to buy elsewhere. People assuming they will buy nationwide C-band clearly didn't pay attention to this auction. If they buy if the top 75 markets that's 200 million and thanks to some outdated standard that qualifies as claiming "nationwide coverage"

    If Verizon participates and wins some spectrum in next years 2.5 GHz EBS auction which mainly covers rural areas, then maybe my opinion of their strategy will change. T-Mobile SHOULD be interested in this spectrum but then again how much do they care bout serving rural customers? I guess we'll see

    Unlike some others who refuse to call out their preferred carrier and can't stand when anyone else does either I will call out BS and stupidity where I see it.

    Verizon is the Atlanta Falcons in this analogy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    Verizon bought CBRS spectrum in only about 5% of US counties. Spending the most does not equate it "winning" Dish spend half that and getting some spectrum in 97% of counties is more of "win" in my book
    But what good does a lot of high band spectrum do you in some place like Brewster Co, TX with a population density of 1.5 per sqmi? While I don't think the results are fully known yet (who got which counties), it's likely that Verizon got what they needed, where they needed it. DISH probably got whatever they could pick up on the cheap. Verizon's goal was not to end the game with the most marbles but rather the best and shiniest ones. Maybe in the end both companies got what they wanted. It's possible to have a win-win situation, not every game is a zero-sum.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    But what good does a lot of high band spectrum do you in some place like Brewster Co, TX with a population density of 1.5 per sqmi? While I don't think the results are fully known yet (who got which counties), it's likely that Verizon got what they needed, where they needed it. DISH probably got whatever they could pick up on the cheap. Verizon's goal was not to end the game with the most marbles but rather the best and shiniest ones. Maybe in the end both companies got what they wanted. It's possible to have a win-win situation, not every game is a zero-sum.
    Yup... the question is the 'where'. 3.5GHz should be used. Places like Chicago, San Fran, NYC, Boston, Seattle, Las Vegas strip - high density areas. Places like Brewster CO, TX or Freemont CO, WY would be kind of useless on 3.5GHz, with the exception of the 1 or 2 towns in the county... and even then not truly necessary.
    AT&T... your world, throttled.

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    I don't think any of the carriers will widely use mid-band or high-band outside of metro areas. T-Mobile has 2.5GHz and mmWave nationwide, but they aren't going to use them in most rural areas.

    According to their plan, many rural areas will only get 600MHz 5G:

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    Difference between B12, B2, B4 and B41 from same location
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    Sent from my LM-G710 using HoFo mobile app

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    Quote Originally Posted by dcspidey4 View Post
    I don't think any of the carriers will widely use mid-band or high-band outside of metro areas. T-Mobile has 2.5GHz and mmWave nationwide, but they aren't going to use them in most rural areas.

    According to their plan, many rural areas will only get 600MHz 5G:

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    Not disagreeing but T-Mobile has nationwide high band?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by cnotes20191 View Post
    Not disagreeing but T-Mobile has nationwide high band?
    Yes, they own mmWave nationwide (combination of 24GHz, 28GHz, 39GHz, and 47GHz).

    And they have 2.5GHz almost nationwide, except for a few rural areas.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    But what good does a lot of high band spectrum do you in some place like Brewster Co, TX with a population density of 1.5 per sqmi? While I don't think the results are fully known yet (who got which counties), it's likely that Verizon got what they needed, where they needed it. DISH probably got whatever they could pick up on the cheap. Verizon's goal was not to end the game with the most marbles but rather the best and shiniest ones. Maybe in the end both companies got what they wanted. It's possible to have a win-win situation, not every game is a zero-sum.
    You bring up ONE county which one of the least populated. My county is rural only 16,000. But within 2 miles of the county seat you have 1/3 of the population living there. And if you draw a circle within a 2 mile radius around the center of town Verizon has 3 and soon to be 4 towers that can over nearly 100% of that circle and in some places beyond even if CBRS only goes 1 miles from the tower. the second largest town only has 600 people but 90% of them live within a mile of the Verizon tower there. So once again CBRS could cover nearly the entire population. We also have a tower by the interstate with 2 truck stops within 1 mile of the tower that cater to hundreds of truckers daily not to mention regular travelers

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    I find it interesting where T-Mobile deployed its midband 5G recently. Typically single site communties in an addition to ... existing cities.
    eg
    California

    Citrus
    La Puente
    Los Angeles
    Paramount
    San Fernando
    Willowbrook

    Much have a site added on B41 and I'll assume n41
    Take a look at those listed in MI... towns of ~1800 people with a +200' site near town, and population density of 1000/sq mile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    You bring up ONE county which one of the least populated. My county is rural only 16,000. But within 2 miles of the county seat you have 1/3 of the population living there. And if you draw a circle within a 2 mile radius around the center of town Verizon has 3 and soon to be 4 towers that can over nearly 100% of that circle and in some places beyond even if CBRS only goes 1 miles from the tower. the second largest town only has 600 people but 90% of them live within a mile of the Verizon tower there. So once again CBRS could cover nearly the entire population. We also have a tower by the interstate with 2 truck stops within 1 mile of the tower that cater to hundreds of truckers daily not to mention regular travelers
    OK but do you really need that many Erlangs to serve 3K people? What is the need for massive high-band spectrum? Does low and mid-band not satisfy the demand? I think a dose of reality may be in order. T-Mobile serves many towns that size with low-band alone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DRNewcomb View Post
    OK but do you really need that many Erlangs to serve 3K people? What is the need for massive high-band spectrum? Does low and mid-band not satisfy the demand? I think a dose of reality may be in order. T-Mobile serves many towns that size with low-band alone.
    Sure you could, driving around eastern Iowa the rural sites were band 13-only like a year ago, and very sluggish (like 1-3mbps, maybe you'd see 10mbps once in a while); running 13, 5, 4, and 2, they're a lot better (maybe topping at 20mbps, and more like 6-10mbps) but could be faster. It's not bad but could be faster. That said, in these rural areas, it makes it that much less likely there'll be all these other users of either PAL or GAA parts (buying the PAL license doesn't restrict others from using it if the PAL license holder doesn't actually have service there...), they might even be able to run 100mhz if nothing else is using it there. Edit: well, probably not, with all the licenses T-Mo got they probably bought some CBRS there; rurally coverage here, US Cellular is on one set of sites, and various combos of VZW, AT&T, ex-IWrieless T-Mobile and ex-Sprint T-Mobile hardware are on the others, so probably T-Mo would be deploying off the exact same sites VZW is on.

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