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Thread: First mentions of nationwide 5G

  1. #16
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    I thought the same! What I find interesting about this new map is that the roaming areas aren't showing anymore. If you put anything like 54112 (Coleman, WI or anything north of Green Bay, WI) the map shows LTE but it is roaming to Cellcom and if you try to order service there, it is not allowed.

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    I am in Monterey Park, CA 91754 and tried to look for Verizon 5G today 10.13.20 on my Note 20 Ultra 5G but all I got was 4G. I can't wait to access the 5G on Verizon to see how it is like compared to T-Mobile. I will be ordering an iPhone 12 Pro Max and enable dual sim to compare the 5G between T-Mobile & Verizon.

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    T-Mobile wasted no time and attacked Verizon’s DSS strategy:


    https://twitter.com/nevilleray/statu...911403010?s=21






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    Quote Originally Posted by powertoburn View Post
    I am in Monterey Park, CA 91754 and tried to look for Verizon 5G today 10.13.20 on my Note 20 Ultra 5G but all I got was 4G. I can't wait to access the 5G on Verizon to see how it is like compared to T-Mobile. I will be ordering an iPhone 12 Pro Max and enable dual sim to compare the 5G between T-Mobile & Verizon.
    You will get an update tomorrow to enable it

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by @TheRealDanny View Post
    T-Mobile wasted no time and attacked Verizon’s DSS strategy:


    https://twitter.com/nevilleray/statu...911403010?s=21






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    What's going to happen when T-Mobile proclamation of doom and gloom on DSS are proven false? I swear the new CEO is even more insufferable than Legere. Honestly if Verizon wanted to solely dedicate n5 to 5G only they could. They are choosing to not take away half their lowband and dedicate it to less than 5% of their customer base. Unlike T-Mobile.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    Actually completely different because Verizon will be using DSS to dynamically shift spectrum between 4g and 5G users based on demand while T-Mobile has dedicated bandwidth for 4G and dedicated bandwidth for 5G. AT&T was using DSS in a few markets but mostly dedicating spectrum like Tmobile is doing.

    DSS when a carrier is not using 5G SA core has a spectrum penalty while when using 5G SA core there is a boost in efficiency. Dedicating spectrum to each network type creates a much worse penalty in efficiency imo.
    Still personally think dedicated spectrum would still be better than stealing apparently what little LTE bandwidth is available to current customers. DSS would retroactively reduce LTE bandwidth to create bandwidth for 5G.
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  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac32here View Post
    Still personally think dedicated spectrum would still be better than stealing apparently what little LTE bandwidth is available to current customers. DSS would retroactively reduce LTE bandwidth to create bandwidth for 5G.
    Except that band 13 is the primary low band spectrum. And band 13 and band 5 can't aggregate. So if you're on 4G the low band most people are connecting to is band 13. If one is connecting to band 5 for LTE then that means you're band 13 is congested. Also up until now band 5 has either bene solely for 3G or only 5X5 MHz for 4G and the rest for 3G. So any penalty on a 10X10 block is still going to be better. Also n5 is still aggregated with LTE spectrum so any hit will be minimal at best.

    Also I'm not sure how dedicating the entirety of band 5 to 5G isn't reducing bandwidth for 4G? So that logic doesn't make any sense. T-Mobile has 15X15 band 71 in my area except only 5X5 MHz is dedicated for 4G. Tell me how that is better than if they had used DSS on the entire 15X15 MHz? Even if there was 20% hit that would be the equivalent of having 12X12 MHz for 4G which last time I checked my math is a lot higher than 5X5 MHz.

    Also since most phone now come with band n71. There is nothing stopping Verizon from say buying/leasing all of Comcast's band 71 and also buy/lease band 71 from all the spectrum hoarders who currently don't have deals with T-Mobile.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac32here View Post
    Still personally think dedicated spectrum would still be better than stealing apparently what little LTE bandwidth is available to current customers. DSS would retroactively reduce LTE bandwidth to create bandwidth for 5G.
    DSS does not 'reduce' LTE bandwidth, it dynamically allocates bandwidth based on demand every 1ms. If 100% of the demand is LTE then DSS would not apportion any spectrum for 5G.

    Using a 5G SA core with DSS also means no spectrum penalty.

    Certainly dedicating half of one's spectrum to 5G the way Tmobile has with band 71 and is doing with band 41 does reduce available LTE bandwidth.

    Also right now there is no N13 so Verizon's main spectrum remains dedicated to LTE by default.

  9. #24
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    From Fierce Wireless -

    https://www.fiercewireless.com/opera...-iphone-launch

    As for which low-band spectrum Verizon is using for DSS, it’s usually 850 MHz, but in some markets where that’s not available, it will use PCS or AWS spectrum. For Ultra Wideband in a mmWave market, it’s going to be either 28 GHz or 39 GHz.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hagar View Post
    You will get an update tomorrow to enable it
    Thank you! Got the update this morning!!!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    DSS does not 'reduce' LTE bandwidth, it dynamically allocates bandwidth based on demand every 1ms. If 100% of the demand is LTE then DSS would not apportion any spectrum for 5G.

    Using a 5G SA core with DSS also means no spectrum penalty.

    Certainly dedicating half of one's spectrum to 5G the way Tmobile has with band 71 and is doing with band 41 does reduce available LTE bandwidth.
    This is why I hoped T-Mobile would deploy DSS, but that didn't happen yet. This would have helped support LTE users for a bit longer than slowly refarming parts of the LTE space for 5G.

    But that's just my opinion...

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  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haas_Dave View Post
    This is why I hoped T-Mobile would deploy DSS, but that didn't happen yet. This would have helped support LTE users for a bit longer than slowly refarming parts of the LTE space for 5G.

    But that's just my opinion...

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    Exactly in my area T-Mobile has 15X15 band 71 10X10 is dedicated to 5G only5X5 is for 4G. This is a rural area so lowband is important the only other lowband spectrum is 5X5 of band 12. Considering this a poorer are where T-Mobile's lower prices would be huge selling point. Lower prices don't mean diddly if the coverage and speeds suck. Meanwhile Verizon has 10X10 band 13( all dedicated for 4G ) and10X10 band 5 for 4G and 5G via DSS eventually. At&t has even more low band spectrum thanks to Firstnet( though I'm not sure it's deployed here yet ). 15X15 n71 on 4G. I might have switched. I don't expect T-Mobile's 2.5 GHz here for years

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    Quote Originally Posted by offthegrid View Post
    DSS does not 'reduce' LTE bandwidth, it dynamically allocates bandwidth based on demand every 1ms. If 100% of the demand is LTE then DSS would not apportion any spectrum for 5G.

    Using a 5G SA core with DSS also means no spectrum penalty.

    Certainly dedicating half of one's spectrum to 5G the way Tmobile has with band 71 and is doing with band 41 does reduce available LTE bandwidth.

    Also right now there is no N13 so Verizon's main spectrum remains dedicated to LTE by default.
    I don't think you understand how DSS works. There's massive overheads for DSS, especially in narrow channels. Even if there's zero 5G users, LTE capacity is reduced when DSS is enabled. That's because 5G PDCCH and SSB need to be transmitting in specific locations while avoiding LTE CRS and PDCCH.

    Also, DSS has nothing to do with SA. It operates largely the same, whether 5G is NSA, SA or mixed mode. Only 5G SIB would be different, and that is a fraction of the overall impact.

    See here for more info on DSS:
    https://www.mediatek.com/blog/mediat...ectrum-sharing
    https://www.sharetechnote.com/html/5G/5G_DSS.html
    Last edited by sheytoon; 10-18-2020 at 08:56 AM.
    Want to learn more about how LTE works?
    https://productioncommunity.publicmo...ls/td-p/130581

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    Quote Originally Posted by jmac32here View Post
    Totally a Verizon PR thing, since they are a little late to the nationwide 5G Game (even ATT rolled out before em, and T-Mobile's been touting there's for well over a year now.)
    I agree. Wonder how much Verizon paid for the PR and / or what they had to give


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    Quote Originally Posted by sheytoon View Post
    I don't think you understand how DSS works. There's massive overheads for DSS, especially in narrow channels. Even if there's zero 5G users, LTE capacity is reduced when DSS is enabled. That's because 5G PDCCH and SSB need to be transmitting in specific locations while avoiding LTE CRS and PDCCH.

    Also, DSS has nothing to do with SA. It operates largely the same, whether 5G is NSA, SA or mixed mode. Only 5G SIB would be different, and that is a fraction of the overall impact.

    See here for more info on DSS:
    https://www.mediatek.com/blog/mediat...ectrum-sharing
    https://www.sharetechnote.com/html/5G/5G_DSS.html
    Once again band 13 is the main lowband spectrum Verizon uses. So it's not really a big deal if band 5 take a hit. It's been either 100% used for 3G or just 5X5 MHz have been used for 4G

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