Be Careful with SIM Swapping

[ST Dog]

So the old G3 and new SIM was activated and the new G3 w/ old SIM was deactivated, right?

And you swapped the new SIM to the new G3?


So what does TF say about the 2 IMEIs now?

Still say the new one is not compatible?
Now say the old one is not compatible?


I do wish the system/CSRs could shoe you the IMEI/SIM pairing. So give a SIM and they say what IMEI the system has linked. Or give an IMEI and they give the linked SIM.

Might help understand what's actually happening. Should have been able to say the new G3 was connected to what SIM and that the old G3 was not connected to a SIM (of that's what happened).

[greenhandle]

I also had an unexpected result when attempting to swap an active SIM to a different phone.

I've had an older Rebel 2 line for a while (Trac branded Verizon). The SIM had been living in a non-whitelisted, but more-or-less Verizon compatible phone for several months. Basic service was fine, but there were issues with texting.

I put the Rebel 2 SIM back in the Rebel 2, no issues.
I took the SIM out of a MyFlip (Trac-branded Verizon), and put it in the same non-whitelisted phone I had been using the Rebel 2 SIM in.
No service, and a Verizon message telling me I needed to put the SIM back in the original phone when trying to place a test call. This was nearly immediate, as all I'd done with the unofficial phone was check to make sure the APN had entered correctly. (It had.)
The MyFlip SIM works fine after putting it back in the MyFlip.

I know this is a little different situation than some of the other reports in this thread-- which all have their own particular circumstances, too. But it does seem to be another indication that Tracfone & Verizon are being pickier about moving SIMs, and handling unofficial SIM-swapping differently than we've grown accustomed to.

[hpham]

I've had an older Rebel 2 line for a while (Trac branded Verizon). The SIM had been living in a non-whitelisted, but more-or-less Verizon compatible phone for several months. Basic service was fine, but there were issues with texting.

Just curious...Which phone did you use with the Rebel 2 SIM? Does it use VoLTE with that set up? (Try accessing online using Data while a call is in progress). I wonder if the SIM of the Rebel 2 (being older) is provisioned for VoLTE.

[advcomp2019]

I apparently ran into this same problem. I had an LG G3 that developed a hardware problem last fall, so I bought another G3 on eBay, plus one of the Verizon BYOP SIMs with 1200/1200/3GB and a year of service. When I got the new phone I checked the IMEI on TF's BYOP page, and I swapped the SIM from the old G3 into the new one to test it. I wound up using the new phone with the old SIM for a few months. Last week I decided to transfer the service to the new SIM. I swapped the old SIM back to the old phone, put the new SIM in the new phone, and started a chat session. After verifying the balances, I asked to transfer service. They told me my new phone couldn't be activated (transcript below). So I asked if I could activate the SIM in the old phone, and the rep went ahead and did it.

During the chat I tried looking up the IMEI on TF's site, and it said there was a problem and I'd need to call customer service. I tried it on Verizon's site, and it said it was good. I tried the old phone's IMEI (which had been associated with the old SIM when activated), and it was ready to proceed with activating (it no longer gives an explicit message that the phone is compatible).

After it was done, I swapped the new SIM into the new phone. So far all is well. It seems that the swaps only cause problems when swapping to a phone that has a SIM associated with it.

One other weird thing is that after the transfer went through, when the added service from the SIM showed up, it added 1500 minutes, 1500 texts, 1500 MB of data, and a year of service. That's 300 extra minutes and texts, and 1.5GB+ short on the data. I asked the rep and was told the rest of the data would show up later. It never did. I tried another chat the next day, and was told I would have to contact "our VAS team", and given the standard customer service number. I decided to leave it as is, since I actually use more talk and text than data on that phone.

Below is the part of the transcript where they told me I couldn't use the new phone. Note that VoLTE was working on that phone (with the old SIM).

I did a really fast check on the LG G3, and it looks like it is an Advanced Calling 1.0 phone.

Lots of Advanced Calling 1.0 devices needs a true Verizon account to activate correctly.

The LG G3 is a SVLTE phone too. SVLTE phones had simultaneous CDMA voice and LTE without VoLTE, and can get confused with VoLTE. VoLTE has HD Calling with another user with VoLTE on that tower carrier.

Plus, if you want to know, this phone makes me remember a thread from years ago. ST Dog might remember this thread too.

[greenhandle]

Just curious...Which phone did you use with the Rebel 2 SIM? Does it use VoLTE with that set up? (Try accessing online using Data while a call is in progress). I wonder if the SIM of the Rebel 2 (being older) is provisioned for VoLTE.

The Rebel 2 does have VoLTE-- the phone was capable, and it's initial activation was only 6 months ago, so it was provisioned for VoLTE on activation. The non-whitelisted phone is an Umidigi A3S, which has working VoLTE with the Rebel 2 SIM. (The Umidigi doesn't have CDMA radio, so VoLTE is the only possibility for Verizon voice.)

I wanted to switch to using the MyFlip SIM, since the MyFlip is CDMA-less, and might get rid of the texting issue with my CDMA-less Umidigi. Unfortunately, I can't learn anything new from this attempt....

[ST Dog]

Plus, if you want to know, this phone makes me remember a thread from years ago. ST Dog might remember this thread too.

Remember well. I still have my LG G2 and the Droid Mini, neither of which can bemused with TF now but get VoLTE with Verizon.

[phone_bob]

So the old G3 and new SIM was activated and the new G3 w/ old SIM was deactivated, right?

Right.

And you swapped the new SIM to the new G3?

Right.

So what does TF say about the 2 IMEIs now?

Still say the new one is not compatible?
Now say the old one is not compatible?

It now complains about the old IMEI (which was activated with the new SIM, but is now dormant), and accepts the new IMEI (which has the SIM in it). I wonder if this will change after some more time.

I do wish the system/CSRs could shoe you the IMEI/SIM pairing. So give a SIM and they say what IMEI the system has linked. Or give an IMEI and they give the linked SIM.

Might help understand what's actually happening. Should have been able to say the new G3 was connected to what SIM and that the old G3 was not connected to a SIM (of that's what happened).

The tracfone account shows:

• The active phone - identified with the nickname I'd given the original LG G3 when I added it to the account, and the phone number.
• A phone marked as "Invalid status" - identified with a number that has 5 leading zeros followed by 10 other digits - repeated twice (I don't recognize this number). It shows the correct last day of service (and correct balances if I click to check them).
• The first of several "Inactive devices" - identified with two instances of the IMEI of the new G3 - and showing a last day of service corresponding to adding 11 months of service to the old expiration date.
• The 2nd "Inactive device" - identified with the nickname I'd given the original LG G3, with "Old" appended - followed by what looks like an IMEI in a similar range to my LG G3's. I had bought another replacement G3 a little before the "new" one, but it was defective and I returned it. I probably swapped the SIM into it for perhaps a day. This is probably its IMEI, but I can't confirm that. I never added it to the account or gave it a nickname.
• (This account has only been used for one active line, with a history of various phones over the years. A couple of older phones are also shown as inactive, as expected).

If I look at the transaction history I see:

• Two transactions around the date of the original SIM swap (I don't recall the exact date):
  
  • UPGRADE
  • DEACTIVATION
  
  
• Four transactions on the date I did the transfer (and SIM swaps):
  
  • REACTIVATION
  • DEACTIVATION
  • REACTIVATION
  • REDEMPTON
  
  
• All six of these are identified with the name and phone number of the active phone.

If I look at the support history, I see a ticket titled "Phone upgrade" on the same date as the transactions related to the SIM swap (I did not contact support then), and one titled "Replacement Units" (type "Units") on the date of the transfer.

Note - there are no transactions or support tickets corresponding to the 2nd "Inactive device" mentioned above.

[ST Dog]

If I look at the support history, I see a ticket titled "Phone upgrade" on the same date as the transactions related to the SIM swap (I did not contact support then)

That's interesting.

Still, would be nice is the accounts showed IMEI and SIM numbers. Or at least CSRs could tell you that info. Even better for a random phone/SIM you have and tell you if it's in the system and the paired SIM/IMEI.

[rpz1]

That's interesting.

Still, would be nice is the accounts showed IMEI and SIM numbers. Or at least CSRs could tell you that info. Even better for a random phone/SIM you have and tell you if it's in the system and the paired SIM/IMEI.

My experience with PagePlus is they can't directly tell you the imei/sim pairing likely for security reasons. But they will confirm yes or no if you tell them the pairing info you want to confirm. PP auto updates the pairing when you do a swap (no need to contact them to do it). I've contacted them after a swap to see if their system showed the correct pairing and it always did. I don't recall how long after but it wasn't the same day and I'd made several calls before.

A TF TV commercial touts "get a new phone and just swap your sim". In some of these cases discussed, it could be if you swapped a sim and the system auto updates the pairing; and then you later stick an unactivated sim in the phone you swapped into and contact them to activate it, they won't be able to because the imei is already active with a sim (through the auto pairing).
This could explain all the activate/deactivate entries in @phone_bob's scenarios. I got lost in it all.

As far as my auto pairing's with PP I don't know if it kicks in when you use the phone or there's also some time factor too. Depending on how their system catches it, if you do allot of swapping right in a row, things could get mingled weird.

[ST Dog]

[QUOTE=rpz1;17167302]My experience with PagePlus is they can't directly tell you the imei/sim pairing likely for security reasons./QUOTE]

I don't see a security issue. It's my phone, on my account. Tell me what SIM the system says is supposed to be in it. Or vice versa, my SIM on my account just tell me which phone it's supposed to be in

I shouldn't have to ask about multiple numbers to finally get the right combination.

But still would be Verizon dropping the pairing crap completely. The SIM links to the account no material what phone I put it in, and it's past time where Verizon needed to know what phone that was.

It's been a while, but I'm pretty sure Verizon showed both the IMEI and SIM number in my on line account.

[rpz1]

...........I don't see a security issue. It's my phone, on my account. Tell me what SIM the system says is supposed to be in it. Or vice versa, my SIM on my account just tell me which phone it's supposed to be in

I agree, that was just my guess. Thought it had to do with someone maybe trying to hi-jack something.

[greenhandle]

...
The tracfone account shows:
[LIST][*]The active phone - identified with the nickname I'd given the original LG G3 when I added it to the account, and the phone number. [*]A phone marked as "Invalid status" - identified with a number that has 5 leading zeros followed by 10 other digits - repeated twice (I don't recognize this number). It shows the correct last day of service (and correct balances if I click to check them).
....

This is very interesting, and it had never occurred to me to delve into that section of the account management.
Just as a data point, I looked at the 2 accounts where I've SIM-swapped my non-whitelisted phone: the first one was in place for months without complaint, and the second account SIM-swap was objected to immediately when testing the phone.

Neither line/account shows any related Transaction or Support items corresponding to the time when I did the SIM-swaps, and neither shows the mysterious 'inactive' devices in the accounts, either. It appears that Tracfone is inconsistent in this area, as they are in so many things. But, I'm definitely going to remember to look at the transaction/support history in the future!